sheng zhen

We never seem to be short of people believing science is the answer to all confusion either. As if science is the WAY and the only method to show us TRUTH. Do you really you believe a scientist being able to proove levitation is going to change the world...wake up man. How do you think the scientist community is going to react? It dosent matter how much proof they get, they'll react the same way. And it dosent matter how well the research is done either. It will be analyzed, overanalyzed, misinterpreted, twisted, eaten and puked up again and then twisted some more. It would take us no further than we are now. Dont put too much weight on science people. It is nothing more than a paradigm.

One other thing Ive noticed in the comments is the translation to "faculties", or "senses". He say the word guan actually means "government". Wouldnt it then mean "how you govern yourself", the aspect of you that takes desicions, choose what to do and how to go about your life. To me it makes more sense to not "let the world confuse my government(making desicion, choosing)" than not to "confuce my senses, or faculties(whatever that means)" It also makes sense to me that my desicions should not confuse my heart. When my heart controlls(not the right word, please see beyond my bad english) my desicions, I am more at center than if my desicions would be products of external influences.

Well, its true that giving away the teaching to knukleheads that can pay will corrupt the teaching faster than giving it to one ore two sincere students. But if its going to available to many people, then the teacher would decide who is sincere enough and not. And then we would have pretty the same situation as we have here. People would speak out their opinion on forums about how stupid that teacher is because he finds some people more worthy than others. But in this discussion it depends on how you look upon money. If you have trouble with money then you will have trouble with people charging money. If dont have trouble with money you will gladly pay what you feel it is worth. If you dont feel it is worth it you happily go to someone you feel is worth your money.

Had my first 20 min full lotus meditation today. It was too painful to meditate, but just good enough so I could do alternate nostril breathing comfortably. The last few days Ive reduced my streching to just a few easy asanas that seem to be the ones that actually help me sit full lotus. But I stay longer in these asanas so it takes just as much time. Here is my program: I do steps 1-3 three times and spend 2-3 min in every pose. 1. Downward facing dog pose. Intermediate pose between #2 and #3. 2. Half-tourtoise pose. Helps my knees and hips to feel safe again after Pigeon pose. 3. Pigeon pose where I also bend forward like in #2. Streches hip and helps bending the knees. 4: Cow face pose with arms twisted in front.

Exactly! That is my point. And when it is free many people make it into many different things. You see? The thing is every techer must decide for himself what he whants. If he decides to give it for free, then he must be ready to take the consequenses, which is deterioration and corruption of the teaching over time(unless he demands complete and total dictatorship of all following the teaching). If he decides to take money for it, or somehow make it harder for people to attain(by hiding from publicity), then the teaching would be conserved in its pure form and withstand the test of time. This is why the secresy of many mystic paths, why taoists write in code language. The teachings are too valuble to deteriorate by allowing the impure of heart to take it for free and do what they want with it.

Someone mentioned Jesus in an above post. Its funny how he is mentioned in every discussion about money and spirituality. He is not a good example, to say the least. Just look what happened to the church and the movement he started. Is the church a true spiritual and free-of-money-insitution? Did the movement Jesus started make the world a better and more peaceful place? I think not. I believe a lot of masters teach for free becaue they only want to serve with a pure heart. But when people with an impure heart starts to demand to have the knowledge for free, then the whole thing would quickly be corrupt and loose its spiritual value.

If you are able to meditate and belly breath and by doing that learn to do xing sheng zhuan Im willing to pay you money to learn your technique! But if you knew you wouldnt bother with these posts...would you... If you are able to achieve what the masters are able to do by doing meditation and belly breathing, or by reading something on the internet that you got for free, then I would pay you money to learn how you do it. But I guess if you were able to do that, then you wouldnt bother with posting here. If xing sheng zhuan is free and natural for you then you wouldt bother posting here. If its natural for all of us, why dont we all know it allready? The thing is all these things, teachings and techniques are not natural. The natural condition for people in this world is not at the level of the masters. If it were so then all people would have no trouble achieving it. The thing is that most people have trouble achieving the natural state and they need a teacher. If you know a teacher or a method that can help you with this, why bother picking on other teachers? If you find a good teacher then it is worth paying for. If you value it you pay for it. Money is a value-system. If you value somthing you want, you would gladly pay for it. Man, its that easy. I guess the thing is you really really want to learn these things, and you want it for free. But wake up man, if you get it for free, then you wouldnt value it as much either. If you dont value it, then why bother getting it? Why bother with it? Some people by small and ugly purses for thousands of dollars! Isnt that crazy? But they value it and gladly pay as much as is needed to get it. Do you go around on their forums telling them they are wasting their money? If you want xhin sheng zhuang for free there is a zhineng gong site giving the method step by step. But is that really what you want? Now that you know XSZ it is for free, do you value it as much as Davids teachings? You seem to want Davids teachings and you seem to actually put a lot of value into what he is teaching. Otherwise you wouldnt spend that much time researching the whole world wide web for information. And you seem to have the opinion that he should teach it to you for free. But isnt that a little egocentric? Now, Im not a student of David. But I recognize these money issues from other systems Ive been in. When people get high level things for free they wont see the value and quickly jump to other techniques. One other thing Ive noticed is that if it is cheap, people really put themselves in danger because they dont have the foundation to deal with the high energycurrents of the teachings. Many people get psychotic because of this. Ive seen lots of cases. Being able to pay, to deal with their physical and financial life is a very smart way to enshure that the people coming to the teaching are people that can deal with it. To me this is a sign of authenticity and honesty. One more thing. I noticed Chanwu say that getting rich means taking money from many and keep it for himself. This can only be true if there is a limited amount of money in the world. But is it limited? I dont think so. And does he really TAKE money from many, or does he GIVE something in return? As I said before, if you dont value what he teaches, dont bother with it. And if you value it, deal with it.

Its too bad the topic title refers to negative effects of "meditation". It should be specified that it refers to "kundalini meditation". There are NO negative effects of regular awareness meditation or silent meditation. It is only balancing, healing and strengthening to ANY condition you may suffer from, both physically, psychologically or energetically(aura, chakra, etc). This includes healing from any suffering from drug abuse. The brain is repared. It is not theory, it has been scientifically observed. The only contraindication regular meditation has is to those with severe epillepsy. But those with just little epillepsy will benefit. Meditation does not have negative effects! Just wanted to point out that important point. Stillness meditation is probaly the simplest form of meditation, but it is also the most advanced. I have seen many people start off with stillness meditation, get bored and move on to more complex visualisations and techniques, then slowly come back to just the regular stillness meditation. It is the only kind of meditation that abels you to recieve completely new realizations. All other meditations only work with things you allready have inside you. Stillness meditation is the only meditation that brings you further by helping you transcend your current reality paradigm, so it is also the most spiritual meditation. The ability to be still, silent, and listen is what most masters tell you is the key. Using essences also is good for the aura. Guardian and Soul Support are good for reparing tha aura and helping you feel safe. http://alaskanessences.com/combination_formulas.htm

It fun to watch these discussions because there are so many realities that are unavailable to eachother trying to communicate. Its funny, but hopeless. Human developement can be split up in three general stages; the prepersonal, personal and transpersonal. The prepersonal depends upon emotion, intuition and faith. They are group-centered. The personal are defining themselves, need to break free from the blind faith of the prepersonal. Mind, reason, logic and knowledge. They are ego-centered(not in its negative meaning). The transpersonal transcends both prepersonal and personal. Instead of faith they have trust based on their own expereince. Instead of reason they have wisdom based on their own expereince. They are spirit-centered. Its very funny how prepersonal and transpersonal very easily looks the same from outside. A personal-level person will attack both because he cannot recognice the transpersonal, only the prepersonal. A prepersonal-level person will attack the personal-level because he feels threatend by his independence. One other funny thing is that you cannot skip the personal stage in developement. And most people who believe they are transpersonal, arent. But everyone can have transpersonal experiences, and therefore it is easy to fool oneself in being transpersonal. So Buddy, clearly personal-level person, your arguing here is hopless. All you will achieve is more confirmation of your own truth. Cant see the need for that And to all others arguing with Buddy; it is hopless. You wont achieve anything more than Buddy.

No Buddy, the onus(whatever that means) is not on us(if my feeling of "onus" is correct). Dont be so lazy. Go get the information, get your experience, see someone who claims to be able to chi-heal and figure it out.(Im shure you have done a lot of that all ready, so why do you think it is false??) You cant expect us here on the forum to "prove it" in any way you would be satisfied with. You should rather ask some of the scientists who have done the research. As for the qi paradigm to be prooven it needs to fit the science paradigm. You see? Just another paradigm. It all comes down to what you accept as the "true paradigm", nothing more. You, and most westerners, might believe that the science paradigm is the only truth, and that all claims can be tested through the science paradigm. And if the testing dosent fall through, then it is not accepted. To me it sound just ridiculous to have such limited views on reality. And Buddy, there is a lot of scientific research on qi-healing so it does fit the science paradigm. Its just the mechanisms that has yet to be expained scientifically.

Had my first two minute long full lotus meditation yesterday, with so little pain that I was able to meditate. It is really special. I understand now what Drew say that it transmutes negative energies and feelings. My experience was that my whole body aligned it self to my central core, sort of. My pelvic area realxed and opened up and energy flowed through my body freely, as if my body was a hollow tube with wind blowing through. This is a feeling I only have experienced after 2 days meditation on a chair during silent retreats. It came after 1 minute full lotus. Truly amazing! So Ill definetly keep up my practicepracticepractice!

For really amazing quality crystals, check out http://www.gemisphere.com/ The stones they sell are expensive, but their quality is truly woth it. Working with the gemisphere crystals is like working with a living being.

There has been done some research on chi healing. I dont know, maby it has been done A LOT of research on chi healing. You might want to check it out Buddy.

Thanks Mal! Great links to Steve Pavlinas blog on his experiments with this. Made me really want to try it.

hahaha, I will have to quote you on this when it comes up in future conversations

We have a guy here in Norway who sleeps 4h a day distributed throughout the day on 15min naps. He's an artist called Reidar Finsrud, a true genious. I took a drawing course with him many years ago. That time he told us he just extended his sleep from 3h to 4h because of age. He had 3h sleep since he was 16yr old or something. For him it works, but he is special. The deep sleep is the most important and cannot be replaced by meditation unless you are very experienced. There are so many calibrations and healing happening in deep sleep, both in body and mind, that if you dont get your deep sleep you will go mad. It is used as a method of torture. If you're having trouble getting deep sleep you will have a lot of healthproblems. If you do too much meditation late at night you will probably get problems with deep sleep. But it WILL make you more able to lucid dream more often, so it has its benefits

Ive been wondering about this a long time and hope some of you experienced and knowledgable can clarify these things for me. What is the difference between chi and prana? Textbooks say they are the same, lifeforce. Im not shure I agree. Isnt there some energetic quality difference? To me prana seems to have a lighter and more insubstancial quality, as if qi is the more physical aspect of lifeforce, and prana a more spiritual aspect. What is the difference between meridians and nadis? Textbooks say they are the same, but the pictures show different routes through the body. Also, if chi and prana really is different, the I suppose chi goes through the meridians and prana through the nadis. Prana is more connected to chakras and chi to dan tiens. And at last, whats the differnce between chakras and dan tiens? We have three dan tiens, and 7(or a lot more) chakras. Hara chakra and the lower dan tien is most likly to correspond, but hara is associated with water and the lower dan tien is associated with fire. And its the other way around with the heart and the middle dan tien. BUT, if its true that we have thousands of smaller chakras, what then is the difference between chakras and acu points?? Maby chakras are collective representation of acu points groups? Still, we dont have acu points outside of the body, but a lot of chakras both above and below the body. That would probably proove the charkrasystem to be different than the acu point system. Its more than enough explanations out there to make us confused. But if we get things clear, that these are different energysystems, things will be less confusing. And to me, I think that is the most likely explenation. Differnt energysystems is connected to different consciousness-expressions, just like different circulationsystems in the body is connected to different functions.

Thanks! Love a friendly conversation Well, I understand why you feel that way, Im a mind kind of guy But Im still confident that I know my way around chakras and aura. The last seven years Ive been working professionally with clients and their developement. Mostly through the chakras and aura, but also other energysystems. I dont do the regular healing, but I work with the energysystems to help klients experience more of their own experience and potential. Its a method developed here in norway called Spiritual Integraton Therapy. The point is not to heal, but to open more of the individual to the total experience and integrate it. And to do that we work mainly through the chakra and aura. Yes, there are many ways to sense energy. But those who are more "clear" than us are able to see it with their physical eyes, just as we see a regular bottle of coca cola. Ive had openings where I could see it, but im not quite there yet. Still too hung up on my regular bottle of coke. One interesting thing Ive heard about is that a human being radiates 4000 different smell-molecules at all times. 300 of those are specific for the individual. The smell-molecules is constantly radiating from the body based on what goes on in the body. It could be that these molecules play a subconscious part in the energy-sensing we do when looking at someone. And I agree with you, the mind is only in the way if we use our it to do things. But still it is a very important part of us. If we only use feeling it would also be "in the way" of developement. We would be stuck in chaotic movement without direction. Both are needed for the complete experience. When I studied at the university I allways sat in meditation listening to the teacher. I didnt try to focus, to understand or to remember anythin of what he said. I only sat in silent meditation and letting everything "enter" me, sort of. I just let my brain sort things out without my conscious intrvention. This made me able to understant thing a lot faster, remember things without effort, and really save a LOT of energy during my studying. It made me able to have two part time jobs, one university study and one therspy school, and participate in several projects, all at the same time. When I got a girlfriend things started to fall a part though. Now I only have one job and taking a break from both school and therapy. Girls are very demanding, but no doubt its worth it The mind, and the brain, are fantastic tools to ground our experiences. But if we use them to direct us, or define things for us, then we get lost real quick. Experience first, then understanding. Stillness meditation is the only thing that takes us further than our own limits, the only thing that can give us radical new experiences. If I try to understand what I see I will only get in the way of the real understanding. But if I just let it happen, stay silent and receptive, things show themselves.

Hahaha, yeah, I agree with you, enlightenment is like a check-point on the way. But for most people it is so far fetched, demands so much disipline and sacrifice, that they wont even be able to dream about it being possible. And if they dream about it, the dream is mostly so distorted compared to the reality of it that it dosent look like enlightenment at all. It look probably more like ego ejaculation. Its like believing that the stars we see on the night sky is about 500m up in the sky and that we actually are pretty close to the stars. But Im up for a race towards enlightenment! What a great idea! Lets go! First to be enlightened gets the others as followers

But it IS funny how most threads gets lost in bullshit and angry comments by people misunderstanding or being too hooked up on their personal opinion. It dosent matter if it is about Kunlun or Tian Shan. But this is the charm of human consciousness. I hope you dont care, dont feed the trolls and keep posting from your own integrity. There are many people enjoying your posts, the so called silent majority.

Yes, its so funny when people say "haha! bogus! that guy would never be able to move ME like that", and think that it is bogus just because he cant move everyone like that. Student-teacher relationships are very strong. But some teachers fool both themselves and other in believeing they have superpowers and can move everyone like they do with their students. These things have nothing to do with superpowers, only student-teacher relationships. It is the same in chistian communities when people start to shake and see god because of the preachers blessing. Its because the students are totally open to the teacher and he can do whatever he wants with them. Nothing to do with superpowers, god or anything unless the teacher really knows what he is doing.

I totally agree that experience should occupy 90%! At the risk of rambling, just because I love working with these things, here is one for the aura. Im not saying anything about how to learn to see these things because it takes years of practice, so this is only technical. But still, there is one technique where most people actually see auras. In the early morning, just before the sun rises, lift your hand towards the blue sky and focus your eyes in the air 1-2 cm just outside of the hand. Use your sidevision to catch it. Most people are able to see the energy and colours emmanating from the hand at this early time of day. Ok, here it goes for the aura: Around every human being, plant or rock there is an aura. It consists of a lot of layers interacting and responding to the environment and the inner impulses of the body and the individual. When seen as a whole, I mean without any filters of the mind, it is seen as an amazingly beautiful aurora of light and colours playing and sparkling around the individual. But most people see through filters and therefore only see parts of the aura, only certain layers. Like those who see your personality through the colour of your aura filters out anything else but that which shown your general personality. Every molecular action in the body is shown in the aura. The state of every organ is shown. Also every thought and emotion, both conscious and subconscious is shown. You can filter out everything but the emotion for example, and look at the emotional state of the individual. You can also filter out anything but the liver energies and look at how the liver is expressed in the aura. This way you can see how the liver energy comunicates with the surroundings. If you pay attention to this you can see when the liver energy is active and not, and what situations or thought that affect it. The auras main function is communicating with the immidiate surroundings. Through the aura you get information from everything around you, both people, plants and things. You can also see the shape and texture of the aura and therby see what people think. Like in a classroom you can easily see who pays attention and not by seeing if the aura focused towards the teacher or not. You can also easily see which boy is interested in which girl. Most people are able to see white light 2-5 cm around peoples head when they are in front of a white background. This is just the most dense part of the aura. You can see the light expand around the head when the individual is consentrating. This light is just that you see where the energy is directed in the body, nothing more. But around 50-150cm out of the body you see the different physiological and mental aspects of the individual. Here is the colours and sparkles. The further out from the body, the higher aspects consciousness is represented. It demands an extreme clearvision to see further out than the physical and emotional part of the subtle aura. Most people think that seeing thought manifested in the aura is something high level ability, but it is not. For most people the thoughts they see are just the physical thinking, and not the more spiritual mind-aspect. If you see further out than the emotional aura you will see the karmic patterns constantly affecting us. And even further out is the soul and eternal aspects. Those who know how to see these things dosent have to tune in or translate images they recieve in their mind. They see it just the way we see the glass of water in ront of us, just as clear. By working with the aura you open up the individuals view of his surroundings and his own relationship towards it. People who have a clean and clear aura is looked upon as wonderful people with great carisma. They are someone we feel we want to be around. The reason for this is that their clear aura helps your aura adjust itself, and you see the world more clearly. This is also the reason you learn more by being in close proximity with your teacher. The teacher is constantly transmitting teachings through his aura. The aura has nothing to do with neither qi nor prana. It is just a consequence of activity in the body and other parts of the individual. WE can rather say that every energysystem has an aura. The meridians have their own aura, chakras have their own, etc. There is one russian researcher, Fritz Popp, who has discovered that every living being, every molocular process, emminates light particles, bio-photons. He has the technology to measure it. As for the kirilian photogaphy, they also only see only one aspect of the aura, not the whole thing. It is extremly limited compared to human senses. But it is alot easier than to work on developing your own auravision, so guess many people are happy just to have their photos taken. As for my aura-vision Ive had several perseptive openings where for a few seconds I can see it all in all its grace. But it isnt permanent for me. I can normally only see shape and general texture, but when Im in the right state I can see more details like colours and layers.

Thanks Rain. I dont know what shen really is either, but hearing about your experience helps me closer to knowing. Here is my take on chakras, just to show what kind of technicality and knowledge Im looking for. There is so much general and personal views in these threads, I would like to hear more about specific knowledge and personal experience. Like Taomeow show us. more of that Ok. Here is the chakras: Chakras are energetic vortexes placed in, on and outside the body based on the frequency they represent. They function as embassies between the individual and the objective reality. They filther impulses recieved from reality and make it fit the individuals state of existence. Chakras are connected to pure consciousness, the soul aspect of this incarnation, and its evolutionary process. Each chakra is representatives of the individuals state on that specific area of consciousness expression and communication with that specific level of reality. Like base chakra deals with survival and the individuals ability to stay grounded in the present situatio. The crown chakra deals with the individuals attitude towards the divine and his own higher levels of existence. The chakras show the individuals state in the different realities. When you see them you can see straight through the individual. You can see past the individuals illusions about himself because his true expression is helplessly expressed by the chakras. They have a lot of different qualities, but mostly they are like a tennisball of light which seem to have its own intelligence. Some are bigger, some are smaller. Some are more active, more passive, more disturbed, more healthy, etc. You can diagnose an individuals inner experience of life, his challenges and potentials, based on the condition of the chakras. You can also affect the individuals learning process by working with the chakras. Helping them recieve reality more clearly and therby giving them a chance to choose differently not based on the regular patterns. There are thousands of other benefits on working with the chakras too. We have the 7 most known chakras, but we also have thousands of other chakras. Like in palm, foot, back of the head, three in the forehead, several above the head, several below the feet, several on the chest, and much more. They are both on the surface of the body, 10cm outside of the body and inside the central pillar of the body. All chakras are like portals, or recievers, of specific frequencies of the total spectrum of reality. This is just a brief technical description of them. There is a whole science to working with them, and each chakra has a whole world of their own to study. The chakras are more connected to prana than qi, to pure consciousness more than the bodys health. But they still effect the body, especially through the endocrine system. they are also closely connected to the organs or bodyparts in close proximity.