sheng zhen

They are real experiences to us, but not really real. Its comparable to the childs mind playing with his toy car. He is driving really really fast and say vroooom. In his mind he is the perfect driver. But it has nothing to do with true driving. The child dosent have the competancy to drive a real car, but in his mind he has. Its the same with drugs. Our brain dosent have the competency to deal with these things, but in our mind, during the experience, we think we do. When we grow up and learn more about auras, energetic sensations and feelings of oneness, it is a lot more to it than the feeling we had on drugs. Just as driving a real car is a lot more than playing. To get a premature feeling we can do drugs, but to truly deal with it and live it... drugs dosent bring us anywere. One more argument that makes drug experiences unreal, is that the brain dosent have the ability to comprenhend anything that is beyond its present framework. That is why dreams are chaotic. The mind tries to interpret actions that is outside of its own realm of reality with elements from inside that realm. Drug experiences is to the brain the same as dreams. Reality gets distorted. The brain needs to be cultivated to deal with higher and more and more subtle realizations.

It is assosiated with enlightenment because it is our natural state, our true selfs state. Deep down we really really really love life and enjoy every detail in it. I agree, enlightenment is about more than bliss. It is a good marketing strategy though, it works. There is nothing people, or egos, want more than being happy and successfull. Books about gaing money and happiness in 1-2-3 are allways bestsellers. I believe deep bliss is a by-product of enlightenment, not the other way around. If we dont reconfirm our new-found truth(from releasing illusion), nurture it and let it grow into our daily life and practice, the bliss will tone down and we will gradually come back to the illusions we started with. They say that whenever an energetic block, or illusion, is released, bliss takes its place. Notice that enlightened people are always happy and shining. When we dont limit ourselves, when we stop confirming our own illusions over and over, our true unlimited self is present. Happiness dosent explain that condition. Its a lot more intense than that. I think bliss or samadhi is more a correct description. I dont feel it is "dumbed down", only not so important. My impression about kunlun is "practice and feel, dont think".

When it comes to the damage psychedelics does on the energy systems there is a lot of things that can happen. From my own experience, the most important effect is that it damages the energysenters that define reality. The aura gets full off blocks, clounds and things like that, which distorts the reality we observe. We might think we get openings, but it is actually distortions. We feel things in the enivironment, see colours in auras and stuff like that, but it is not the real colours. It is all distorted. We also get a lot of openings in aura and chakras. The effects of these openings are varying from individual to individual. From what I have seen in friends and clients who have done a lot of drugs, including psychedelics, is that the connection to ones true self is severely damaged. I think this weak connection is part of the reason people take drugs in the first place, they dont really like them selves. And doing drugs makes this connection even worse. Psychedelics also damages the higher centers of the energysystems. The higer chakras and higher consciousness layers. They get dull and non-substantial. We think we get in touch with the higher levels of reality, but in reality we disconnect ourselves from it. I dont give much credit to drugs. I did drugs to open up, but too many of my last years have been spent to undo the damage. But i dont dismiss the possibility that psychedelics can be used for good purposes under the right circumstances and right guidance. But we dont get those circumstances in the city or with our regular friends. We hardly get them with experienced shamans. I think it is best to lay off drugs all together if one is concerned about the energetic body and cultivation.

There is an amazingly big collection of research done on acupuncture since the 70's. I seriously dont know what the fuzz is all about. Same about meditation. There are people, or scientists, who truly still dosent believe in the effects of meditation. There are over 800 research articles done on meditation, we dont need to do more reaserach to figure out if it works or not. Considering the amount of research done on meditation it should be made an obligational part of elementary school. I havent thoughroughly looked into the research material on acupuncture, but Im shure the amount of research is breathtaking. There is nothing to be unsure about - acupuncture works, even when looked at from a scientifical point of view. The beliefsystems around acupuncture is something different, they are not accepted, and cannot be accepted by the current worldview of science. The concept of qi and lifeforce can not be proved by science because science and all its mesurement systems is based on electromagnetism and gravity. And that is the limitation of science. Claiming that there might be other forces as well is like claiming that the world is actually round, or that the earth is actually NOT the center of the universe, or that mankind is NOT the highes evolved and most intelligent beings in the universe. That scientists and doctors still dismiss acupuncture as superstition or placebo is just because they havent taken their time to inform themselves about it. They act according to their own blind faith, their own beliefsystems, and nothing else. They are no better than the religious fanatics they try to be better than

Ive been doing a lot of psychedelics in my time. But when I realized it was damaging my spiritual practice and reality orientation I quit. Ive spent many years of hard work, therapy, cleansing and healing to get back to normal. All the experience you long for in psychedelics you can get by regular practice and meditation. Feeling of oneness, interconnectivity, seeing visions and other beings, auras, energysystems, etc. Ive met many people who have all this naturally without ever doing any drugs. We dont need them unless it is for selfdestructive purposes og fun. Spiritually it dosen bring you much other than damage from my perspective.

Yes, the group here in Norway had a 10 day period of preperation before they allowed you to do the darkreatreat, which lasted 10 days if I remember it correctly. Anybody here who have done it?

Id love to hear about your darkroom retreat when youve done it! Ive been dreaming about doing a darkroom retreat for many years but havent come across the oppurtunity yet. I know there where some people in Norway who had these retreats a few years back, but I cant find them anymore. Dont know what happened to them and I dont remember their names.

I fucking love colouring!!! Im fell off the chair this morning when I saw it!! It really made my day

I said this before but you probably dont know what Im talking about yet. You get what you ask for. Its about attitude. People only react to attitude. You can often use the words you want, but its the attitude people answer. If you write your questions in another way, with different words showing a better attitude, Im shure you will get a lot more of the answers you want, not just comments on your attitude. The point is to get the answers you want, right? Its a lot easier to change yourself than to change the world or other peoples reactions. When you see that your questions result in a lot more comments on your way of asking them than in answers, you should take a hint and try to adjust yourself so that you get what you want.

There is a traditional "spiritual law" called Kamit in some language I dont know - the law of silence. If you're doing meditation and you get the feeling that we are all one, then jump up, run out to your family and tell them "hey y'all! I got it! We are all one! Ive got to get on tv and tell the world, they need to know". Then you have lost the feeling before you've even opened your mouth. But if you stay with the feeling in meditation, you stay with it when you go out of meditation, you recall the feeling during other meditations, you get the feeling in your everyday life, and you get the feeling so many times that its a natural part of how you experience life, then it is integrated and you can talk about it as much as you want without loosing it or destroying it. I believe that almost everybody who do meditation or any other spiritual practice had these experiences the first years. Leaking and sharing is nothing to be afraid of because we learn by our own experience, not by what someone tells us NOT to do. We can listen to what the teacher say and try to recognize it in our own life, but not listen and blindly believe it.

Ive been thinking about this question a long time but almost forgot I wanted to ask it... Many of you have said that Max adjusted your position a little bit and then everything changed and got better with the practice. But what exactly is there to refine about this position? It is such an easy position... what can we do worng? Does he maby adjust your energychanels at the same time or is it just the position that changes everything? Maby some of you can give an example of what he changes with your position?

Ive had many good experiences and benefits from doing kunlun this month, without transmission. But the one thing that interests me the most is that my ability to see auras gets better, the chakras are more substantial and I can see a lot more of what they are about and their interaction with peoples internal and external worlds. All the energetic systems has become more visible with my physical eyes, not just my inner vision. Sometimes I feel like I see through an opening in the fog and things are crystal clear. If this practice expands after transmission, I cant wait to get it! And while Im here I have a few questions to Wun Yuen Gong on the "you guys are not spiritual" comment. I dont see how you can come to the conclusion that kunlun practicing people are not spiritual. Why are they not spiritual? And by "the path", what do you actually mean? Is there a ONE path that everyone must go to have spiritual progress that they have missed? If that is so, which path is it?

When I was a kid me and my friends used to "die". We breathed real heavy for about 5 minutes and then put a lot of pressure on our chest while holding our breath. Sometimes three friends put pressure on the others chest. Then we fainted. It was a lot of wierd things happening during the fainting. We could see our selves from above, we could go on strange and long dreamlike journeys, it could feel like we where gone for hours while it really just took about 30 seconds. It was great fun! But after a while we all started to get headaches so we quit.

Hi Cat. I know you asked Drew, but I think I want to answer it too because I pay a lot of attention to these things in my own life. From what I know consciousness is unlimitet, really. Our daily, waking consciousness is limited to what we are able observe, but out complete consciousness, including every layer of unconsciousness, subconsciousness and supraconsciousness and all of these things, is unlimited. Whatever we put our attention on, our consciousness is in dialogue with that thing on many levels. The more aware we are, the more we realize this dialogue. If we put our attention on a teacher who is very clear in his own consciousness, and who is aware of all the layers of consciousness he is communicating and what he is commincating through them, this communication gets more visible and available to us. So yeah, we can get transmissions from good teachers by whatching dvd's, reading books or seeing pictures, but I believe meeting the teacher in person is much more valuble. Its too easy for the waking mind to distort the inner communication. Ive heard of a few teachers who mostly only teach via this inner dialogue. This is one of the reasons we feel a recognition when we "find" a teacher. But this dialogue also works with friends, plants, memories, celebrities, etc. Whatever we put our attention on, we have a dialogue with it on some levels. We are all connected, we are all really one... We are the world, we are the children...

This post really resonnated to me, and cleared up a few things Ive been thinking about lately. And it made me even more look forward to meeting Max and his crew and get the transmission. Ive been doing kunlun for a little over a month from the book, and I feel there is so much more to it that I dont get in touch with. I have high hopes that I will get in touch with it when I get the transmission. But I dont agree with the above sentece from your post. I dont know if you do either(compared to your other realizations) when you think about it. Other people is just as much part of the Tao as anything else, and the people we meet is just as much our creation(or attraction) as anything else we experience. And yeah, the Tao is not punishing us! If we feel punished we are doing it to our selves. This is a great realization, true liberation. One of my experiences so far with kunlun is that I feel I understand more of this kind of attraction. This magnetism feels more real and more substancial. As the energyblackages releases I can see more about how my inner states and issues create my experience. And I get the feeling that if my inside is in bliss, then the world I experience is also in bliss. If you see the divine in yourself, you see the divine in others. Im not there yet, but I see the possibility...

Yeah! Right on! But will it stop the discussion or stirring of dust? Not at all... This is a level of understanding that only those at that level understand.

It is so meaningless it has become interesting... Strange how we can sit so far away from the ones we are talking about, never even met them, and still discuss our opinion about them. I just find it strange...but interesting. Human consciousness and our needs of self-confirmation can be very amuzing. Skeptics or not-skeptics, the same mechanisms of self-confirmation is working, only different perspectives. You have very good points seandenty, I like reading your posts. The fruits of your practice and your good teacher shines through. When it comes to science, it is still only subject to the paradigm created it. Collective consciousness evolves and paradigms changes as evolution goes along. The science we know today is no different than any other religion that tries to define what reality really really is, what is true and not. Why bother with proof? It is only proof of the paradigm it is proved in anyways...it wil be something else in another paradigm.

Did you learn all three levels of Kunlun at the seminar or do you still have to do 6 months of Kunlun 1 before doing kunlun 2 and 3?

Cant wait to see it!

Yes, if you are a good student taking responsibility for your own progress, you can learn what you need from everyone, even if it is a fraud teacher, a dog or your own tv. These things dosent really matter as long as you take responsibility for your self.

Ive seen this in many people who meditate, especially those that have just started dedicate themselves to it, and Ive had this problem myself. I dont know if my explanation applies to you, this you have to decide for your self. Ill just share my experience. When we meditate we open up a lot of things in ourselves. It can be subconscious memories or reaction patterns, auric field and other energy systems, and a lot of strange things. The aggressive thoughts can be subconscious expressions of unresolved stuff, but can also come because we get very sensitive to other people and their subconscious field, energy systems and other subtle stuff. This can be from people on the subway, collective consciousness or whatever. If we go into the world with the openness we have in meditation, without the ability to recognize what is what, or as joeblast say; what is our core self and not, there will be a lot of things in us that we dont feel is our own. So one antidote to this is to close the meditation in a proper way. We should not close ourselves completely, but make shure the auric field and our consciousness is firmly grounded in our selves, or our core self. In the same way that we have skin to protect our body, we need protection in our energy. One simple visualization is to see a blue protective sheet, like skin just outside of your aura before you go out of meditation. This is often enough to take care of the most subtle inner (or outer) environmental noise we have to deal with.

What are the other 5 types of qi?

Third that...(trying to not be the silent majority) Its wonderful that all these questions are answered so openly and freely!

There is a Zen-story about this that you probably know much better than me, Lin Please give us the correct story(with correct english language) if you know it... A Zen practitioner fed up with the wold and wanted to reach heaven, and to do so he was told to let go of the world. So he let go of the world and came to heaven and all was fine. But then after a while he wanted to go further, he wanted God-realization. In order to get God-realization he was told to let go of heaven. He did and got God-realized. All was fine for ever and ever, but he still felt he had to go even further. Now, after he has renouned all there is to renounce, what is left? He discovered that the only thing left to let go of was "to let go of things". So he did, and at that moment he was back in his everyday live. The only difference was that now he was free of the need to renounce things.