sheng zhen

Maybe the 70% rule has a fractal impact... lets say during 100 days of practice you have 70 days where you nice and easy follow the 70% rule. And the rest of the time of 30 days you break the 70% rule. In a more global perspective you still follow a 70% rule I think the most important thing is to be able to listen to ones own body without being fooled by psychological patterns of lacyness (or eagerness).

I would say this is part of the charm. I hope taobums will not become over-moderated. Regarding the 70% rule I think there is a time for breakthrough and a time for rest. During the time for breakthrough one should absolutely break the 70% rule. Otherwise the development will be veeeery sloooow. But if we try to break through when the body is not ready for it, it will become unhealthy and unbalanced, and the development will stop completely. I usually stand within the 70% rule. Which makes my sessions anywhere between 10 minutes to 1 hour. But sometimes I'm ready to break my limits and then I stand as long as I can take.

link fixd! Its a fun gizmo. Fun to see how the breathing affects the heart and nervoussystem. But very limited when it comes to the more advanced breathers. I will use it mostly for clients who need to learn to breathe better.

hehe...I just got this gizmo, stresseraser, a few days ago. It shows the peaks, valleys, plateaus and barriers of the breath

Vortex, I forgot to answer this one. And then I was reminded when you referred to it in another thread. What I meant with "movement" was what the slow movement a massagetherapist does with his hands in the clients fascia. That melts fascia for sure. I am not 100% sure if the slow movement we do in qigong melts fascia. But I agree with the theory. It would at least happen through different mechanisms. Maybe through increased bloodflow and strengthened propriosensoric nerve activity? Anyways, the fascial release will happen a lot faster if done by a massagetherapist. I dont know. There are many variations of Structural Integration. Search for Rolfing, KMI or just Structural Integration in your area. At the www.anatomytrains.com I think the have a list of practitioners.

Goddammit... I am not here to defend anyone, and I dont like seeing my screen name in this discussion, but it seems I end up doing it anyways. NOT because I want to defend the person, but because I want to defend the practice. I learned XSZ in a weekend seminar. That was definately not enough! And usually they only teach 5 or 6 of the total 10 parts during the weekend seminar. Its not a simple practice. It can be done in a simple way, but if you want the deep, transformative effect, and not just swaying the body here and there in the air, you need to learn the details. And you need corrections from a teacher. Jun also has week-long retreats.

Yes, I think its more challenging and "chiropractic" than the Zhineng Gong's Xing Shen Zhuang. At least in the beginning its difficult. But when the body gets corrected, it also becomes soft and very enjoyable

The point of XSZ is to correct the body. And that is what it does. Since doing XSZ for a year and a half I have no movement restrictions in my body when I go through the tests of physiotherapists. All my back-problems are gone. My arthiritis is gone. My knee is even better that it was since I was a teenager! My digestion is perfect, etc. etc. XSZ takes care of the whole body. If you judge XSZ from looking at a video or reading a text about it, you will miss out on all the details being learnt at the seminar. It is the details and the live physical corrections from a teacher that makes it a very complex and deep qi gong.

Maybe because of the quality and debth of the teaching? I have learned from one of his students. But if what David teaches has (the same, or) a higher quality, Im sure he is worth both the dedication and the money. But ofcource, not everybody, like me, can afford it. Anyways, that does not make me angry and it does not make me spread negative rumors.

yeeeeeees!

I dont understand where these shit-talkers are coming from... Have you done the Foundation Training? The Xing Shen Zhuang and Sheng Zheng Gong? I dont think you learn much power stuff until the Nei Gong part. Which comes after the Foundation Training - correcting the body and stilling the mind. Training the body to be free of dysfunction so the mind to be still seems to be a foolproof path that both the wisdom-hungry and the power-hungry can enjoy. Anyways, if you have learned Xing Shen Zhuang I dont understand how you can say that what he teaches is not worth the time and money....

Yes, science has created a lot of mechanical things, and has a good understanding of mechanical laws. But this must NOT be confused with biological things! Science has hardly scratched the surface on understanding biological things. And biological science is certainly not as successful as we have been with mechanical science. The biggest mistake the scientific community is doing is to apply their mechanical laws on to biological(alive) systems. They have certainly not succeeded with that yet, and I suspect they never will. Biological system are not made of parts put toghether like machines. They are GROWN based on a continuous dialogue with the surrounding systems on all leves from microstructure to macrostructure. This is an unbroken fractal complexity that is impossible to understand within a traditional mechanical context. This concept is something anyone can SEE, and touch and feel. It is right in front of us, within us and all around us. Still science people stubbornly try to put bological systems into their mechanical understanding. I have no more "faith" in science than I have in Qi or God or astral dragons

Its a way to work with the myo-fascial bodybag that takes our bodies from scattered dysfunction to harmonic bodyconsiousness. It works in perfect synergy with Zhan Zhuang in many ways. I have written two article for TTB, and have more coming once inspiration hits me. Here is a short clip on how it is looks like: Rolfing has a rumor that it is painful. But with the new research on how fascia "melts" with slow movement, it does no longer need to be painful. SPEED IS THE ENEMY! This clip is from the Kinesis Myofascial Integration, which is Tom Meyers(the genious behind Anatomy Trains) way of doing it. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Absolutely! It has already become a natural part of any massage therapy education just like Anatomy Trains soon will be.

I have spent the last year or so studying the Anatomy Trains. Its a great book packed with information! I work now at a clinic where we give treatments based mainly on the AT-lines and Structural Integration. I also have a couple of articles in the article section here about AT and Zhan Zhuang, if you are interested to look them up. Structural Integration is a great way to skip ahead many years of difficult Zhan Zhuang training

Yeah! Grunge is back! <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I dont know about that. It sounds very interesting! I hope you find it again. But I know fascia has recently proven to be able to contract and relax like smooth musclefibers. I think this is Robert Schleips research. Here Robert Schleips say something about fascia being our "richest sensory organ". <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

What you describe is the way to use dreams. It just takes practice. I would say that if you have mastered something in your waking life, but not in the dreams, then you have not really mastered it. Whatever you realize in waking life should be mirrored in dreams aswell. T.ex. if you have resolved an issue with your parents in waking life(through therapy or wathever), but still have dreams of anger towards them, then you havent really resolved the issue (just a very simple example). But regarding the last paragraph, it would be unhealth to have 3 hours of sleep only if you start doing it prematurely. But when it comes as a natural result from your practice, then it is of cource safe

The best way to interpret dreams I know of is called Integral Dream Listening(or Dream Yoga). Its a way to interview the dream character that makes you able to access the unique and deeply personal intention of the dream, from the perspective the dream characters themselves! You just ask the dream character a set of questions that are designed to unfold your own unique connection to the dream character so the character itself can tell you what the meaning of the dream is and what it has to teach you. And also how it can help you in your daily life and development. I have found this method to bring a whole new level to dream interpretation! Instead of forcing an outside pradigm(designed by someone else) onto the character, you learn to LISTEN to what it actually does in your dream. Since the dream is designed by you, it should also be you who interpret it. Not someone else. And even better; let the dream characters themselves TELL you their intentions! Here is the questions: http://www.integraldeeplistening.com/exper...dream-character It might take up to 30 minutes to complete the questions, but if you take the time you will certainly find it was worth it.

This is something I wrote a long time ago but did not post. But I think this might be a contribution for this thread. So here are my thoughts on the mechanics of delusion: There are many levels of delusion. Some are serious diseases, others are everyday delutions we share with the rest of humanity. But the mechanics are the same at every level. Everything we experience pass through our auric field(which can be considered a representation of our consciousness and subconsciousness). And the auric field consists of many levels, or layers. We basicly have the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual(though there are many many more sub-layers, internal layers and supra-layers). Whenever we experience something it needs to pass through all these layers before it reach our waking self. If there is a trauma, an energetic substance, a memory, a drug-induced illusion or a culturally progammed concept, it can be seen as a fog or some substance in the respective layer of the aura. We call this a blockage or an issue. The experience of reality that pass through this issue will be distorted a littlebit. So when it finally reach our sensory organs(the brain and our waking mind) it is distorted. If we believe this distortion is the true reality, then we are deluded. It dosent matter what level of seriousness the delusion is, or how subtle it is. Our sense of reality is disruped and distorted. If there is an auric distortion in t.ex.the emotional layer, we will get an emotional reaction that does not correspond to reality. If there a distortion in the mental layer we will get a distorted sense of logic that is not really logical. If it is in the spiritual layer we will get amazing spiritual realizations that are not real. This is ofcource a very generalized picture just to illustrate the point. Our auric fields are so full of distortions that we hardly ever really see reality. We live within our own delusions, surreal logic and fantacy spirituality. And when we use this distorted sense of reality to try to understand what is distorted within ourselves, and then clear out our own auric field through visualizations or different practices, we too often just make things worse. Putting more distortions into our aura. The only thing that can clear out our distortions and bring us closer to experience reality is stillness. Simply because there is hardly anything we do that is not based on the delusion and failed logic we live within. When the water is still the mud will settle and the water becomes clear. Then, and only then, we can see.

I see. Thanks!

hmm, I dont know what you mean with "stillness in stillness" as opposed to "movement in stillness" in relation to what I said... Do you mean that when the body is still the mind should move and when the body moves the mind should be still, and that the body and mind should not both be still at the same time? To me, when I practice, there is many things happening on many levels. For me, or more correctly "me", practicing stillness is just a way for me to get out of the way of nature. The qi moves when I am still. It moves without "me" interfering in its movements. Thats how I understand "movement in stillness". But if I am not still(in body and mind), my interference will limit the movements of qi to what my mind is able to accept. I have not learned from Wang Xiangzhai, and not from his students either. So I don't really know what Wang Xiangzhai means with "stillness in movement, movement in stillness"...

When I stand I have around 5-10 minutes of micro-corrections until I find my equilibrium. For every deeper level of relaxation I enter, I do some micro-correction because the body adjusts. When t.ex. I do a small correction in the hip, I also have to correct the balance at the feet, and the thorax, and the neck, and the shoulders. For every little correction I do I have to synchronize all other parts aswell. So it these micro-corrections make it micro-dynamic But when I find the equilibrium I have to keep still. Completely still! Or, its not that I HAVE TO, its more the NATURAL thing to do because it feels so good and the body WANTS to. If I keep moving, even though its micro-movements, it would no longer be Zhan Zhuang. I would loose the stillness. The secret to Zhan Zhuang is stillness both in body and mind. If the body is not in stillness it would be another kind qi gong, different from Zhan Zhuang.

I have tried to write an intelligent answer here many times today, but it seems Im not intelligent today so I'll just say: Yes. And I agree with Sloppy: SCIENCE ROCKS!

..and attitude! Welcome!