immortal_sister

i have been waiting to answer this thread to see what others would say. now this thread has turned into a discussion about the PUA stuff. but anyhow, it was interesting reading witch & kate's posts. there is so much i want to say, but it is far beyond the scope of what should be expressed to perfect strangers on a message board so here are some thoughts. in my opinion it all boils down to seeking balance. women seek what they perceive will make help them achieve happiness through balance (even if entirely unconsciously). women are by nature more yin, therefore they seek the yang. although that's true, maybe that's over-simplifying it (but sometimes the most obvious and simple answer is the only truth you really need in the long run). a woman who is imbalanced, let's say, and very controlling, domineering and yang, will most likely end up seeking and staying with a man who is more submissive to her, isn't very driven and lets her be in control of the relationship - this will be more complimentary to her. otherwise the two yangs would clash. beyond that, what every individual woman seeks is different. what women in different cultures and women of different age groups seek is different, etc etc. this is too wide a question for me to expand on i don't believe this is something that can be put into words, only something that can be felt internally, if you are woman, or experienced directly by being very close to a woman if you are a man. i don't perceive myself as having any power over other people or over males. i don't even perceive myself as having power over my husband; this type of power is an illusion and one that can be hurtful and detrimental to one's spiritual and emotional development, in my opinion. the only power i perceive myself as having is power to be and become the best human being possible, to live in the present moment. all power comes from the one and only source, whatever you call it, the tao, god, the universe. everything else is illusion. see my answer above. as i said above, i don't feel that i do nor do i want to. if you are referring to the idea that women have power over men because they can attract them with promises of sexual rewards, can make a man weak in the knees just by looking "hot", i could "turn that on" if i wanted to but choose not to. not only because i am married, but because i have my own personal views and beliefs about modesty and respect. be it with a total stranger or with yup, it is. i know men hate hearing that, it just seems all too simple and silly. but any quality or trick you can come up with to pick up women, in my opinion, boils down to self-confidence... combined with having the all-too-common overactive male ego in check at least when it comes to finding an actual partner, and not just someone to fuck once or twice. that's a whole other story. but i guess this is where this whole thread turned into talking about PUA stuff. i have no real interest in that or in trying to tell guys how they can find women. so i will leave it at that for now. witch said: i too believe that women all have access to magical power, magical abilities. for example, i believe that intuition is one of these "powers". it can be expanded on and be amazingly potent, or it can be completely ignored, because our society does not approve or recognize such matters. i think magical abilities are closely and directly linked to a woman's true essence shining through her being. but i believe that for many women they are so out of touch with their true feminine nature to ever grasp this concept or experience it; it is buried far too deep. i disagree that this feminine magical power can only come to its full potential through pregnancy and birthing. i think this is probably the easiest way that it becomes available to many women. i don't think all women who give birth feel this (especially in our society where most women give birth all drugged up, don't feel a thing and have a c-section), and i do think women can connect to this side of themselves without giving birth. it is probably harder though. i have never given birth myself, and have always had a sense that there was a part of me that i would only be able to access through giving birth. i was never able to name it or express it, it is just a knowledge deep inside of me. i will say, though, that through studying different traditions and through various practices over the last year i have been getting glimpses of whatever IT is and i feel far closer to fully experiencing my feminine essence and magical abilities than ever before. i feel it is within my reach, and not dependent on me having a child. i won't know for sure until i do though, i'll keep you posted what you are saying about opening the heart can, in my opinion, entirely be achieved without giving birth as well. i think birthing can instantaneously open it, but there are many practices that can allow one to do this as well. in fact, there are (i believe) several sects of taoist alchemy that had practices that they would only teach to women that had never been pregnant, because certain aspects of their "power" were stronger then. they had never depleted their jing through birthing, which is the most energetically depleting event in a woman's life. in alchemy, jing must be "restored" or collected to be refined into chi, then into shen. without healthy jing, the higher states of consciousness cannot be achieved. therefore birthing could be seen as depleting in these practices. if anyone has anything to expand on this matter, i would love to hear it. my direct experience is limited, not having studied with a master or given birth myself. i think your comment about "being powerless over her desire for a man's penis" is your own experience but is not the norm. i get the sense from many of the things i have read from you (especially your latest thread about kundalini) that your approach and perspective on sex is very male-like. it is not my intention to judge you in any way by saying this, please correct me if i am wrong, that is just my observation. most women are more driven by connection and emotion than by visual stimulation and overt sexuality. especially when one is on an internal alchemical path, even if one has a high libido and is very sexually active, sex takes on a completely different color and meaning. the desire is not for someone's penis, but it becomes much more about desiring someone else's energy, your connection to their energy, and the bliss that comes from cultivating that energy. when my heart is at its most open (i don't feel that my heart center is completely permanently open yet, i am getting there..) my "desire for a man's penis" is at its lowest in fact. what i desire is far beyond that. not to say that just "wanting to fuck" is wrong or bad. but i feel that your analysis of a woman being spontaneously orgasmic and having an open heart somehow automatically meaning that she is powerless over wanting sex is incorrect.

i've done a lot of yoga over the years and i have come to one simple conclusion. no matter what name they give the type of yoga they do, if all they do is "flow yoga" (no static asanas), if its "hot yoga", and/or if they never mention anything remotely spiritual about the practice of yoga or talk about meditation, then it is merely exercise, and not actually yoga. nothing wrong with it per say, but it won't get you anywhere beyond the physical.

scared still by the chief more powerful than they know beyond space and time

to answer your question, i practice wing chun (from the yip man lineage mostly), tibetan white crane kung fu, and yang style tai chi (although i do not practice very often these days). i have also learned various qi gong forms over the years, from all the systems i have been learning, as well as spring forest, but have been a slacker with the internal martial arts. i am trying to get my practice back up to par. thank you for taking the time to reply to me, it is much appreciated. i understand the differentiation you are making, however you seem to be assuming that yoga = kundalini yoga. i don't practice kundalini yoga and tend to think that it can be a dangerous practice when taken on with too much aggressivity (as discussed in the other thread where the issue of mental sanity being lost through kundalini for many people). there are many different systems, same for internal martials arts & neikung. i was speaking in generanilities. and although chakras and dantiens are clearly entirely different animals, i feel that they can be complementary, especially since one is more emotional based and the other is more physical. if the two are slowly developed together, i have always felt that this could be a very balanced opening up of the body and the mind. you are speaking about these practices on a very high level - to become an immortal, to be enlightened. the opening poster was asking which system would be better to help him restore physical health. so i was thinking more along those terms when i posted and said that the two, at their base, have very similar goals and both use movements and stillness of the body to achieve psychological and spiritual goals. for eviander's purpose, and on a lower level in general, i still maintain that the two are somewhat parallel and can be practiced together safely (unless perhaps the only yoga you do is intense kundalini yoga, then i can see how the two "energies" you would be building could clash in your body, such as your experience that you were describing). i think this was stated well and i agree with this view:

i would like to revive this topic as i am just about done reading the white tigress book. i didn't know much about the practice before ordering it, though i did know that my husband had read the jade dragon book and had been really unimpressed. i didn't read this whole thread. it seemed one person has studied with hsi lai, but i didn't hear any women mention ever trying those methods, or discussing whether they felt they would ever want to try them. i do agree with whoever brought up the issues with the chapter on STDs. i was pretty much fuming after reading that, it was almost enough for me to not want to finish reading the book.. i'll have more to share when i finish the book, probably within a few days. i am not fond of the concept of chi vampirism to begin with, so a lot of it rings false to my ears. i does seem there are some worthwhile practices within the teachings, even though little is revealed in this book. furthermore, they only discuss the first 3 years of the 9 years of training. i think they mention that some dual cultivation methods only come later on in the training? i would have been far more interested in hearing about those personally. but oh well. any women would like to chime in?

indian summer.. or forgotten summer? no, i won't forget you..

i have practiced both yoga and martials arts for many years now, but am by no means an expert in any of these arts. i believed, through my own experience and through reading, that the point of yoga was to utilize the body to achieve psychological and spiritual effects, that the body work was the foundation. same as what you are describing for taoist practices. i would like for you to expand on the differentiation you made, if possible, as i do not perceive it that way from my own experience, and have in the past personally looked at both types of arts as very similar in the grander scheme of things. (i.e. true kundalini awakening being parallel to becoming an immortal, fully developing the shen body, etc.)

knowing you want a master and a teacher is one piece of the puzzle - knowing what you are looking for and want to attain is the other big piece. starting locally is a good idea. start some basic practices, this might be able to guide you toward the next step in your search of a master. when i first posted in this thread, i told you i might be able to recommend some teachers that are well within driving distance from you. you didn't even acknowledge my post. what are you expecting exactly?

great post all around. it is a good point to make about the hormones. another thing to consider about chromosomes since Creation brought that up, is that the chromosomes for women are XX, men are XY. the default is the X, the female chromosome. i find this stuff fascinating! also, if we look at the evolution of the fetus, we see that before the sexual organs of the child develops, until about the 9th week of gestation, the sexual organs of both male and female babies are the same http://www.baby2see.com/gender/external_genitals.html there are two theories about this stage of development; some scientists say the babies start off as "females", that this is the original template (which to me makes sense, given the X chromosome being the one that is always present), but others say that the template is neutral. either way, something interesting to think about, and i think it relevant to some of what Taomeow was saying. all this is just food for thought, and not meant to be some kind of show of how women are superior, etc. it should be obvious to anyone that when it really boils down to it, yin and yang are complimentary and necessary, one does not exist without the other. same is true for males and females. i don't want to get too involved in this discussion as i reacted negatively when i first posted in this thread and it was not productive

yeah i agree. it is easy enough to have a poll say whatever you want it to say, based on the question that is asked and how it is worded. atheism and non-religion are pretty muddy waters.

i wanted to add a few thoughts to this thread. first, in reply to hardyg. i don't know about china, but here in north america i wasn't surprised by the fact that atheism and non-religion were separate because i think there is indeed a big difference between the two. people that use the label atheism are often (not always) as attached to the concept of atheism and evolution as someone else might be about their religious beliefs. it may not be a religion, but it is a belief system. and on the other hand, many people simply don't have a stance either way, simply don't care about spirutual matters, or believe in some concept of god but would answer that they don't have a religion if asked for a survey. i have known many people like this. in reply to yoga, regarding the statistical numbers in china. i would tend to believe as well that there is a good chance that people weren't entirely truthful about their beliefs because of the strong history of the chinese government's oppression. today still, people from falun gong are executed and oppressed because of their spiritual beliefs and practices. i have not been to china myself, and perhaps someone who lives there could correct me if i am wrong, but it is my impression that in a lot of china religion is still somewhat of a secret for many people. it is very unfortunate.

if you haven't already done so, read up about mudras - hand gestures used in rituals. different traditions have different ones (hindus, buddhists, taoists, native americans, etc.) and they can be very powerful when combined with meditation. some can help you build energy internally, for example, while others help you expell excess or "negative" energy. i have been playing around with a simple hand mudra lately that helps expel negative qi and it has been really powerful for me at times where i needed it most.

i don't think there is a solution. these conversations will never end, because it is an eternal struggle, one of the greatest dualities in our lives. we can have amazing conversations about these topics, and learn a lot about the opposite gender. if people are open-minded and willing to genuinely try to look at the world from the other's perspective, they might learn something new, and expand their mind. but you need that open mind to begin with. so, yeah, no solution just an anger-filled opening post, with several great replies that will probably be ignored by those who need it most!..

i think you make a lot of good points, and i tend to agree with most of what you said. i am not one of those feminists that think men and women are the same, or should be the same, and my understanding of equality is often offensive even to other women, as i do not agree that equality means being the same. women and men are completely different creatures in so many ways, and these differences should be embraced and even brought to the forefront, as these are ultimately what help create & maintain balance between men and women. differences does not make one lesser than the other in its essence. this concept does not make me feel slighted; men's attitude about these differences does, however. yes, for the most part, men have more physical strength, women have more "power". but discussing this on an internet forum is somewhat futile, as you alluded to, since it is hard to really discuss these very subjective concepts; everyone has their own definitions. already non reacted strongly to your choice of words and completely misunderstood you... agape could probably use some advice from both sides of the spectrum, this is true. but the negative energy he put out with his first post was not in any way a genuine invitation for information and input. your observation that his misunderstanding yin is driving her away is absolutely correct. and i still stand by what i said in one of my others posts - no amount of internet chat is going to truly make him realize what the missing piece of the puzzle is for him. he needs real life experiences and growth that will lead to maturity and greater understanding of the all-permeating truth.

and drew... if i didn't know any better, i would say that you keep avoiding our questions and the points we bring up and instead just post links and videos...

my thoughts exactly. if the person starting this thread had actually wanted real information, let alone information from women (which is who he should be asking, if he doubts their ability to do anything except make babies) he would have expressed his thoughts in a much more thought out and respectful manner

forgotten summer before i can blink, snow melts spring again warms me

forgotten summer fall rolls in, birds fly south.. alas, forgotten summer

yes i did! i am very impressed by her and get a good feeling from watching several videos of her healing people. with that said, #1 you didn't answer my other questions and #2 there is a difference between full-lotus being your main practice, and full-lotus being your only practice! ok, i think misunderstood you, my apologies. i didn't think you were asking me if i could have internal climaxes just from sitting in full lotus. i cannot. though i can sense that i am coming closer to being able to do so.

an old witch's brew three toads, mugwort, datura we shall fly tonight!

the title was not controversial, it was insulting. these are two different things. i can think clearly just fine, even if i am disappointed by someone's closed-mindedness. however, reading the title and your actual post, i sense so much misogyny and so little understanding of the way the world actually works, that i do not feel it is worth trying to "state my case" and convince you to re-evaluate your so-called views. my feeling is that you simply do not have enough life experience to see the obvious truth, and no amount of internet chatter will change that. peace.

i wasn't familiar with the zar trance, very interesting stuff! i have no doubt that this is a very powerful healing modality for a lot of people. there is a lot that can be said for dance, singing and music used for healing, almost all cultures use these methods in one way or another, often unknowingly too. i have had a chance of participating in similar women's circles and can attest to their potential for healing, especially for healing emotions and spiritual issues, which more often than not ends up healing the physical as well. saying that female shamans are either mediums or possessed, as if those are the only possibilities, is extremely disrespectful. this is the kind of view that led hundreds of thousands of women to be burned at the stake. i don't know if you were just commenting on this view or saying that this is what you think, but either way it is belittling to female healers. furthermore, are you saying that only men can transmit healing energy? i found your comment confusing, saying that women are passive healers. in what way? energy is energy, it all comes from the cosmos, we don't "create energy" so to speak. women are no more passive healers then men are, although i would generally agree that women might utilize energy differently to heal. but this does not equate to being passive. ... and while the shaman is off in the forest for weeks at a time, on spiritual journeys, the women are healing the whole village

do you do any standing neikung or yoga, or any other practice other than what you do while sitting full lotus? oh i do, quite regularly actually. and i make sure to balance it out with other meditation postures, or qigong, or whatever flows that day.

i would have read the actual post if it wasn't for the horribly insulting title of this post. major fail.

well said! as per this specific situation, i think unless someone has actual psychic abilities, things like feeling people's energy via an online forum is bound to be based on a person's words, not their actual energy. drew even said that he thought mokona was a woman because of his name and avatar. yup i think a lot of what markern was saying is worth thinking about. although i can't "sense drew's energy" form his post, the language he uses and the way he expresses his ideas makes me feel that all his energy is in his head. which makes sense if he sits in full lotus every day. balancing this practice out with a lot of standing and/or grounding exercises is probably almost always advisable. though i don't know what all of drew's practices are. anyhow, bottom line i just thought a lot of what mark said was interesting.