Pandit Tree

Should pitch a permanent tent here, son! You should find good company with hardyg and cowtao!

I thought your time is to take us to 'the other side'. However, it seems you pick and choose whom to be 'compassionate' to! Your time seems to be to pontificate to the easier 'audience'. The "Ai Wei" speaks for itself but the "Jing" sure is missing from the "Xin" Sure explains the need for those macho men for your site! Namo whatever, alright!

I will not go into the is it/is it not whatever that one may want to make of Charles Luk's translation. Old Charles translated works from the Chinese and he did many a fine translation. I want to talk about Luk as a person. He was a devote Buddhist, spent a lot of his life doing translations from mostly Buddhist works for which he got paid very poorly (ripped off!). When he retired from his regular work, he spent all his time doing research and translation. He would do that first thing in the morning he got up, work all the way till noon when he would go for a short lunch break. He would then return to continue his work all the way till supper time... He always had time for people. He always helped people. He led a disciplined and frugal life. Was he Taoist? He was a great human being and worthy of great admiration though he would be too humble to want that.

<<< Want real Daoism? ... in the words of Master Zheng Man Qing when talking about Taiji Quan, "Invest in loss". >>> I am not sure if Zheng actually said that - much of his stuff in the USA came from his followers. But if one dares ask - why did Zheng demonstrate the circus stunt of 'being able to hold back "force" in the form of a big person or a line of people'? He liked doing that to non-Asians and the 'feat' is nothing but a cheap piece of fraud designed to dupe ignorant public. The 'feat' usually to show "qi" has absolutely nothing to do with that or Taiji. That was, and is the kind of "Dao" that is 'Daoism' to those who want to see their "Daoism". Peace

You see post about Journey but you don't see post about thuggish lookin' doods selling 'toughness' and 'meanness'... Still 'bout that "does anyone know" I would like to take your test - Journey to the West is a satire which includes depicting Buddhism as 'opiate of the masses', monk as a dumbo easy to lose focus of his religion, easy to dupe when he is busy being pious, etc. You have to read the book not talk about the video series as any "value". Buddhism or Taoism is neither strong nor weak or "without application". They are dependent on the people that practise them, the clergy as well as the lay folks. Any old swindler can put on the robes and fool the public. Any 'devotee' can genuinely or self-deceptively recite the sutras until Buddha or Laozi returns. In fact you can teach a parrot to recite "Namo Amituofo" until its kingdom comes but that does not make it a Buddhist! Similarly, eating vegetables does not make one a Buddhist - you can be a vegetarian of the mouth but not of the heart. You can take on Buddhist or Taoist name but that is just a name. You can write a few articles, expound the profundity of the gospels, 'interpret' any old scripture or the Yijing - all intellectual poseurs do that! Ultimately it is the individual who has to do his own work and for himself - and he would probably do a better job making a fool of himself than some bigger fool make that for him! Often 'being' something is just purely decorative, an outer image with nothing to do with actual substance. You can buy the robes and buy the titles but that has nothing to do with the heart. You can babble on about any religion but the actual practice is quite something else altogether. We can always find people who can recite sutras forward and backward, quote from texts, interpret the Yijing etc etc but you can almost always find poseurs among them. We can find same in the martial arts - mere mortals posing as tough gorillas to influence followers to be just like them. All in the name of being better human beings, no doubt... Selling emotional crutches does not help anyone any more than talking the part - acting like some kind of pseudo religious nut with need to save the world, intellectual conman going on and on about the 'depth' of their 'expertise'... 'one-inch' punch of Wing Chun - what does any of these do for the mere individual? Sweet nothing! As for "When the west presents statues and architecture, and daily lifestyle in he mannerisms of Daoism of China, and vice verse, then one can say Daoism has anchored itself in the west.", the Buddha had his mission flourish under a tree. There are forest monastery without roofs all over Asia. There are Taoists who still live in caves... The exact opposite may happen when all the external trappings become the belief - all nice buildings with no faith in the hearts of the admirers of statues and architecture. We can leave out the "mannerisms of Daoism of China" or of anywhere else - where is the Buddhism and Taoism in the first place be they Chinese, "Western" or Brooklyn?

You drink Guinness! Even Macallan! You must be alright! I drink overdraft Guinness. Expensive and comes in small cans! Celtic School of Western Taosim then? From Boston? Your chief Taoist rabbi must be Iain Paisley then! Him with the Shamrock Ruyi sceptre! Can't relax here, I've got to work hard to keep up with your over 1,300 posts!

Your "Tao" is about being racist to the Indians and the Irish then?!!! You should tell your parents pig farming used to be a worthy occupation!

Yeah, may know what you mean. There were also the underground fighters, the revolutionaries, the village defenders, the defenders of the common folks, the promoters of Chinese culture, the promoters of physical culture, the lovers of art... Ma Yongzhen's name immediately comes to mind. The young man whose skill was used by merchants to keep order among labourers and who ended up a defender of them. Generals He Long "of Wudang" and Xu Shiyou "of Shaolin" - may be "commies" to some but were honourable disciples of their masters and deeply respected by the common folks and martial arts community for their great skills used to served their cause. Gu Liuxin of Taiji was an underground fighter, did dangerous work throughout China, even taught Taiji to Ho Chi Minh. Zhao Daoxin of Yiquan was also an underground fighter during the War against Japan and the Civil War. He Yuanjia went round China to collect good martial arts people to form the Jingwu to train students to be ready for war. Highly-skilled masters volunteered for that and other training academies. Many, many others offered service, some lost their lives... all with legendary ability and inspiring character. Bounties were placed on the heads of these people. Skill. devotion to their cause, bravery won them the respect for history. There certainly were no 'eye candy', nice robes, belt colours... there were great risks to life which could even extend to their relatives... As for 'test' there actually is none. There is nothing to prove. The old masters say if one does not know where he is at with his skill, he does not himself - he knows nothing. Shame in some quarters this has deteriorated into ranks, titles - Shifu this/that, master, grandmaster... hollow challenges, petty feuds between schools, circus tricks and stunts, mindless showing off, brags...

"To understand the world we need to go beyond names..." But for you - I am talking Mickey Laoshu "There is taking the P*ss under Heaven!"

So, Lin. taking on a Chinese name instead of using Leroy "Nasty Boy" MacBeth or Chico "Hitman" Sanchez, Junior III, won't do the trick then? I would retain a martial arts 'hall of fame' mugshot of comics straight out of wrestlers' ads for training club's list of teachers. Macho image, beefy fists, hairy, wide-between-the-eyes, mean-lookin' doods look better than those "eastern promise" of wimp, frail, limp-looking "sick men aof Asia" that is Kung Fu masters of the East! Look at the likes of Yip Man, Lee Shing, Moy Yat, Chan Wah Kiu etc of Wing Chun before their Westernised students came up with their revised images of oversized ice-cream cone, top-heavy, beefy fisted, bound-footed, 3rd-rate low budget Kung Fu movie stunted men mugshots. Looking at the pictures East and West, just who would want to learn from who? Who would want to go to DDJ study classes with those sickly types from the East? Who would believe true skill comes in deceptive product design? Who wouldn't be happy squashed flat in an aircraft seat sitting next to those hunks in them mugshots? Who wouldn't sell their daughters to do cheerleading for those failed football stars? No prize for guessing! We should retain the positive aspects of Western Daoism or Western Buddhism, definitely. Historically, the Chinese were alright with their posters of door gods stuck onto their gates, scaring the living daylight out of little kids. Now they have lost that tradition of publicity and promotion and it is up to us in the West to bring back the essence of instilling fear, worshipping toughness and meaness, and art of projecting power into their lives. Herego scum ego as they say in them no-go areas of Brooklyn! Take a look at your martial arts site mugshots - except for that nerdy lookin' smiler on top, the rest look like alternative lifts and jacks for the heavier replacement parts for heavy trucks! That is, when on other days they do not go and smash up people and property when they collect debts for their loan sharks or do their hits for some Columbian cartels, see Chico in the last mugshot. He be the stand-in for Tarantino's answer to Johnny Woo's death-by-tofu-fist-killer! Hollywood scripts be the DDJ and 'chicken soup' for the backward East! Never in the history of world Daoism or Buddhism or real martial arts have so few done so much for so many! Praise be, Bro! I'll leave out those bits about going' to China to collect certification and blessings and all that! I won't bother, no sireeee! China should come to its knees when it sees those pictures of vertical aircraft-carriers on tiny feet! Pray! O Master Po! Give me the insight from the Garden of Zen and Cellar of Hidden Wisdom so that I may journey to the West to get copy of Triple Kata with the rest of my crew! Amituofo! Peace be, peace be...

Everything is empty!

Not always so though. "Westernisation" often means you pay the first big bucks for the "master" to generate more stuff for which you have to pay still bigger bucks: the updates, the sequels, the prequels, redux, still deeper secrets, seminars, workshops, books, DVDs... and, of course, that fengshuied T-Shirt. Somewhere you become doubtful and you switch to another "master" and you discover he is every bit the same as the last. All claim to have direct link to and sole agency for some masters in the East. Reincarnation certificates prove that. You are a slave to such masters. Alternatively, you can get it piece by piece and for 20 years. Along the way, you discover the "master" is a charlatan and you switch to another "master". You find him every bit the same as the last. And the last. At age 102 you discover that either "Western" or "Eastern" they are all (almost always) the same. You are a slave to either kinds of masters. One way out would be to work on oneself. Somehow. Laozi or the Buddha didn't rely on books. You might not get anywhere. But is there anywhere to get to. You find more often than not the experts the book writers need more guidance than yourself. (Alan Watts did a great mileage in enlightened words. His spirituality was such than he drank himself to nirvana! Chogyam Trumpa was of the same spiritual mould. He had to be carried in totally pissed to give his sermons. Some say it is not the messenger and all that. But what did the spiritual stuff do for the last person who preached it?) There is no master and there is no slave. There is only work on the mind to do on our own. But if one insists on being a donkey - there will always be someone who will ride you. Now, hand over your subscription for my next pile of "learned" words ("my papers") - I need the money for my next trip to China! I need the cred even though I can't speak the lingo and no one there wants to speak to me even if I do (that's why I resent and blame them!) Once your check's cleared my blessings will come in the post! Meanwhile, stay eager for that clip of me in China riding the white tiger and chasing the dragon... Watch me in that sea of Daoist priests I can't communicate with. (Well, I am of the "Western" brand which is label for those who hardly know any Daoism but still want to be some kind of self-invented "Daoist") Don't I look the part, though? Video is $49.99

"...presuming that you live up to that philosophy, " I don't live up to any philosophy. I just live. "but since I myself live up to that philosophy" If you want me to say you are a good boy, here you are: Good Boy!

Hmmmmm....... Dunno 'bout that "slinky red dress" but whatever turns you on, I suppose! I'll leave those 'experts' to decide how much of your effort is Daoism or even how it is a "poem" What you do with animals and cheese burgers is your business no need to advertise that here - but I would worry about those sexist and anti-Latin bent though Not healthy!

Insults???!! You, I/We/Mickey?Damn Edna/Laozi all know I am telling the truth the way you can't take it! You tried agreeing, you tried apologies but still couldn't resist firing salvos of rot at me?us?we to salvage your sagging front. I/We/Wong came in for turkey shoot in OP with scatter-gun, you grabbed gun and pointed it only for yourself - you couldn't resist identifying yourself! You were glutton for my "caustic" cleanser, now you slink out attempting to blame me for making you a "martyr"! No sense of honour or humour, I says! What would Laozi do in your circumstance? - as the evangelicals would say. Still, the world is a small place, things do turn their full circles... I/We/Wong/Sheila look forward to meeting you all over again! Might even meet you in China - will assemble all those "manifestations" for you to inspect (and slag off and chastise). Learn Chinese this time! Watch them knees! And "toss the prawns in the barbie", mate! Quote from Western Daoism... See you in a bit in another post!

Depends on what you define as "an academic subject" and depends on what you define as "stool" really... If you have read just a few more books you would have found contents of book you are reading lifted straight out of the many books those stories and anecdotes have been circulating for years. Nothing original. Plagiarism... Regurgitated stuff packaged for the average mentally unchallenged story readers... Stool! Thanks for telling your interest in religious Taoism is virtually nil, I won't know what use to make of that. Being 50 means virtually nothing. Neither being 60, 70 or 100. Some people grow old but that does not always mean they necessarily gain insight into anything. Doesn't mean they have to either! There is old saying "An enlightened person has taken more salt than others rice" meaning they have been around very much longer than some younger upstarts and have gained much wisdom. There is also saying "An older person is simply someone who's produced more stool". Don't know if either is academic Taoism or religious Taoism. As for "religious history of the West". What do you mean? History of the Mayans, Aztecs, Cherokees, Sioux..?

Depends on the definition of definition and the definition of define, really... Still, when it is "defined" it then becomes what it is not... As the resident expert waiting to be discovered, Sickweird, you should really be the One to tell us what to split the whatever you use to split a hair with! But can't you just be and not let that head of yours do painful overtime? Brute force in the Chu tradition and loutish challenge to push hands ain't the way for the head! Laozi advised you relax, don't do the funny weed, remove that Ned Kelly helmet from off your skull, let air in, let fresh thoughts in, let go of concepts, let go..! Breathe in, breathe out..... Scupper those unsinkable junk from your head... When that Qi of the universe permeates, you thoughts become clearer, your pontifications more profound... What's more, you might even begin to do real Taiji! (Alternatively, try raw tofu, be a vegan, wallow yourself in sacred mud; leave your beard longer, dye it white, put on orange frock, call yourself Maban Tjukuritja Katoomba that be the order of the Grand Lodge of Eastern Daoism - as opposed to Southern or Northern Daoism or Uncle Ming's Dragon Gate Restaurant) Meanwhile, a journey of a million posts begin at the first step - relax!

I don't know about my Taoism or Tai Chi either. Depends on what those are compared to, I suppose. You need a long to see the short, and so on, I think old Laozi wrote about that... or at least his secretary did... As for your diagnosis "come off as a very angry guy, hungry to insult and create as much bad feeling as you can", I don't know either but if that exist, that is only natural. Surely not a crime, surely no punishment needed. Suppressing them is not good. Good and bad and all that can coexist and do come together. No need to have purity here, it doesn't exist. No need to have segregation for the holy and the others. I can only look to elders like you to guide me out of whatever way you identify as erroneous. Dunno what I should have offered at the Summit. Don't pay much attention to "should". Organisers didn't ask for a handout, were happy not getting any offer from me. Treated me better than some of those who offered. Dunno what they offered, neither did organisers. Haven't done any audit about whether anything or nothing is the only thing I have to offer here. Didn't know there are parents collecting wedding presents at door of this church. What else is this site? A bleeding altar? Uncle Wong's bargain basement of offers? Bargain hunters' Daoist Seventh Heaven? A place for people cataloguing offers? For assessing offers? Grading offers? There a Gestapo dictating what is and what is not an offer? Everyone must make an offer?

<<< Exactly who are you representing with your words? >>>In the opening post you said: "Some Chinese (and they do add up to plenty when we do a percentage-wise count)." Exactly who are these Chinese? Are they the Chinese Daoist priests and Masters themselves? Or are they part of the peripheral group of Chinese who attended? Hold your donkey, Sickweird, you are beginning to read like you are interrogating me/us/"they" in my/our/them "various manifestations" and according to your psychic inability. I, or my "other personifications" do not need to click my heels and stand to attention just because you have got your jackboots on (kinky!) and posturing with your quarter-baked "Taiji" "push hands" stance on (*puke*!). I won't let my imagination run riot to find "Chinese Daoist priests" and "Masters" or "peripheral group" just because you are paranoid! What "exactly" are you smoking this time, eh? The work is for you to do yourself and you had plenty of chance to do that while in China. You didn't and I don't intend to be your "Abo". I won't sell out my Chinese (and other) friends just because you are dreaming you've got the kind of (conman's) "power" from the "Grandmaster" Chu pedigree! Either go find out for yourself and by yourself or take a running jump off Uluru, I am not going to play "coolie" to you even if you are leather-clad, with whips and have a peaked cap with skull and crossed bones! <<< To add some perspective, have a look at how you are portraying this "group" with your representation here. In your attempts to present this group, of which you obviously claim membership, as somehow superior to the Western delegates, you have merely portrayed them as a bunch of half-brained giggling school-boys puffing themselves up with a false sense of superiority. If your reporting is correct, and we only have your word to go on, then their comments equate to no more than the school-yard antics of the "in-crowd" who think they have the right to condemn and criticize those that they declare are "lesser". >>> "To add some perspective" - "exactly" whose? Yours?! Stop hallucinating about the "group" - words do not fully describe them. Suffice to say, it is "all sorts" ("10,000 things", haha) of Chinese who attended the summit. They do not need to report to you and frankly they have not paid any attention to you other than to be "entertained" in ways by your very comical representation of cultural myopia which you disguise in a rather ding dong way - you acted with a script for protocol from old "Charlie Chan" flicks when you dealt with the Chinese. Then during the bulk of time you were nowhere near them you went into a primary narcissistic mode! You are just a lost little boy trying on victimhood at the same time cannot resist the ego trip of "brute" arrogance ("my Taiji is so good that I can thrash one and all, no need to tell me anything about errrmmm your "superior" stuff!). I think Australia's attempts at eugenics is getting the better of you, you are too much into the Nazi phraseology of the untermenschen - that "lesser" kind of stuff which got the "Abos" where they don't belong in "White" Australia! Try not to see the world like that and if you do then do something about it. Try Australia first. We have a problem with explaining "in-crowd" to those hempen homespun among the "lesser"/"superior" folks here. I am happy for us all, the "group" to be called "a bunch of half-brained giggling school-boys". We can live with that. "Yield" so the good book says, and that goes for Taiji too. At least we can tell you are playing the role of the much misaligned victim properly while you massage your weak ego. I think those "Daoists" ("priests", "Masters", whatever) among us would be delighted with the label. I am for them/us/me/Mickey/Dame Edna. Show us up as human with mirth and relaxed, and can see through your act in its schizophrenic manifestations: sometimes paranoid and with juvenile need to go on the attack, other times the need to draw attention to yourself (Me, me, me!). Make up your mind, son, if you want to be a "tough" Chu lineage "superior" "Taiji" expert no-one-should-tell-me-anything or you want to be amenable, remove that huge chip off your shoulder and stop making a big meal out of your "superior-inferior" more diabolical than dialectical paranoid thinking. You don't always have to split that one into two and all that. "We" all love you and all, you make us laugh, you are a joke on two legs errrmm almost two, you do that "superior" Taiji, remember? (wobbly, wobbly, Stiffy Wonder with vacant gaze...). You are a laugh and a half, me old son! Try laughing, mate! Go on! Don't be afraid to let go! So cut out that "superiority" crap, son! I have already said no Chinese that I have heard from felt anything like that about themselves. They could hardly fathom the intellectual depth of those "inferior" among Westerners who presented papers and dodged discussions. They hardly had anybody to show stupidity as very few spoke Chinese to them that can be understood. So there wasn't really any chance to pronounce anything superior or otherwise. But it does seem some people have to feel inferior. We wonder why. For some with an Intel on the shoulder one childish technique is to play at being treated as "inferior" then accuse someone else for thinking that. Usually these people have that dire need for some kind of assurance that they are not seen in the wrong light. No one among the Chinese felt the need for that superior/inferior thing, I heard all addressed and listened to each other respectfully, were relaxed and enjoyed a bit of good humour. To think and insist there was that "superiority" is rather disturbing, smacks of that "good breast, bad breast" thing some expert child psychologists talk about of those with self-esteem problems. That is how Western psychologists think and they can only be right. No Chinese acted or attempted to act "superior" so please don't comfort yourself and turn this into your private "battlefield" that people are out to make you feel inferior. No one bothered about that and that includes me/me/I. As much as you did not reach out to the Chinese, they were politely switched off when you were out to impress them (and everybody else). Please don't draw me/us/Mickey/"Grandmaster" Chu into that infantile stuff about your hurt feelings and people are out to offend you. I repeat, no one bothered or much noticed your contribution to mankind. Save when you humoured us. You stood out like an ostrich and it is your own doing. Everyone else has a right to his/her opinion and not to have their landscape fouled. You were culturally myopic. Even when you are here you are more interested in lifting up your skirt to hide your face, you still really need to heal that bruised ego. You seem to think like especially for yourself others are bothered about being seen as "giggling schoolboys" - we are not! It is a lovely description for those who delight at being themselves, making the most of a perpectual youthfulness and do not appear to come from some kind of ordered or controlled life that some do. Was your father a hard man? Did you go to one of those fascist schools which warp children's adult life? Choose to answer if you want to, this is not an interrogation, son! I like you as a person even if you can't take yourself as a joke! You cheer us up over here as we entertain ourselves with this board. Have to say many have to switch their "bored.no amused" mode and enjoy! It's cold and when no one buys booze but brings a dissertion in a carrier-bag advertising booze, we burn his book to warm us up. It is not as good for Climategate than warming ourselves with a hearty laugh! Keep the juice flowing here, mate! Thanks! <<< So exactly whom are you being the voice for here? Let's hear some names. Which Masters directly expressed or agree with your comments? Without this list then all we can assume is that these views and comments are yours and perhaps a few of your drinking buddies. "So exactly whom", "Let's hear some names", "Which Masters", "Without this list then all we can assume"... Yassuh Massah! Yassuh! (Heels clicking, fear that riding crop!). I don't know who the "we" is that wants to make that assumption. Would that be your thinking that others are as paranoid and thin-skinned as you? One moment you are the epitome of "superior" in Daoism and "Taiji", the next you are the epitaph of superiority in actual practice. Please make up your mind, your "Taiji" show the same schizophrenic tendency. Lay off the devil weed, son! And stop doing all that handjob on words, son, you'll go blind if you come from one of them fascist schools or a hard family which I think you do! For your information, my "drinking buddies" are all white folks - that should be all right with you. You huddle with them for your "safety" in a China that saw you as an arrogant bungling culture=blind comic, please don't insult who I drink with just because you hope they be Chinese who have hurt your feelings. Take heart (and liver) I am trying to get more of my Chinese buddies to drink too. I am saying this because it seems I may need your approval! Cheers! <<< And if it is the Daoist priests and Masters who expressed these views then I denounce them as frauds and an embarrassment to the good tradition of which they are meant to be prime exemplars. But if, as I suspect, these views are merely those of small group of the Chinese periphery, then the relevance and weight of these comments are, quite simply, inconsequential. >>> <<< And if it is the Daoist priests and Masters >>> I know you are itching terribly to know but what if they are not what you imagined? Would you still chastise them with whips and scorpions? Put the fear of "G*d" in these bad "giggling schoolboys"? <<< then I denounce them >>> Who's "I"? Norman Schwartzkopf?! You gonna lead an expeditionary force to punish the heretics? You having a trance you've become some kind of superior Supreme Master or a mother superior? <<< to the good tradition... prime examplars >>> What's that? Ego-tripping? Culturally myopic bungling? Going defensive by being offensive? Slagging? Dictating, playing the Big White Chief Number One Daoist Shaman to the damn natives? "Superior" push hands of "Grandmaster" Chu? Confusion by profusion of "superior-inferior, them-us" mental disharmony?... Why should those priests and Masters need be anything even if they be forced by your edicts. They need hoohah over "Wu Wei" not a ticking off by that glass-eyed leading the sheep in the land of the blind! The Lord is my shepherd, son! You are being a bit too nasty to those who deviate from your "Taiji" "footwork"! Show us the way, we all wanna go back to our reservations, Massah! Show us what "prime exemplars" should be, we do love to be lions led by a donkey! <<< I suspect... small group of the Chinese periphery >>> "I" suspect, therefore "I" can only be right! Is that paranoia again? Can you give flesh n bone to this "group", please? Any size of "samll" would do! I like to know these friends whose voices you are hearing in your head! <<< then the relevance and weight of these comments are, quite simply, inconsequential. >>> Hahahaaa..... The Good Lord has passed judgement! Praise be! Hallelujah, Amen! A true latter day saint from the Hallowed Order of the Western Daoist Pantheon ("Superior" as described on the export version of soysauce). Sickweird, we/I/Mickey/"giggling schoolboys" are a bit confused who's who among the "foreigners" you all do look alike to most of us - might you post a picture of yourself here, we will then know who's who among the holy order of enlightened saviours. We don't want to be bowing to the wrong false idols. We might not even be talking about the same person and you need not go kangaroo hopping mad after all! Better still, post a clip too of your "Taiji" I/we/"them" can then show that to "Grandmaster" Chu at his expense. Looking forward to your further guidance! p.s. Please add "schoolgirls" to "giggling schoolboys" - you shouldn't be sexist and miss out the Sheilas! We shall be deftily handing around your slags all over China. What fun!

Am new here, board said to come in here to say "Hello". So Hello!

<<< >>> I haven't elected myself nor do I know of any other Chinese (or even other "foreigners") who has done so for the purpose of seeing to the "growth of Daoist culture". The Dao follows nobody so don't make its growth the "white men's burden" or cross to bear, please! "My" "derisive comments" are not proprietary - they are shared with and influenced by the Chinese and other foreigners. I do not think the "biggest impediment" to any contact between two cultures in the context of the summit was that "the Chinese and Western fraternities both maintain their immature positions of superiority over one another". Some may think or behave like that but I haven't met any among the Chinese. You can name them. But I have met a good plenty many Chinese both inside and outside the summit who do not display any immaturity or superiority. I can say same for some foreigners too. I do not think that there is enough scholarship (leave out practice) on Daoism among most Westerners to maintain any position of superiority even where they badly need that for their market. I think they badly do need so (for egos and bread n butter), the appearance of some Daoists among them did a lot to cause the paranoia inducing their hallucinating about their intellectual floor being cut from right underneath their wobbly legs! I hovered between the groups during the presentation of papers and I did see (along with many others, Westerners included) very nervous, tensed, defensive experts cracking under the strain of their own fears! I did not come across any attitude of superiority among "the Chinese" - they were very generous with me, not immatured at all, very scholarly and expert in their fields, excellent practitioners of Daoist arts and so on. <<< the longer it will take to share with the world whatever benefits Daoism has to offer >>> I won't worry about that! The Dao follows nobody so even if there are the "immatured" and the "superior" it means nothing. It is not the job of those who have appointed themselves to bring Daoism anywhere! Smacks of Christian evangelism and missionary zeal! Why not leave the donkey work to the Chinese? But of course we cannot trust the Chinese to be able to do that - the last time the Chinese did that with Christianity there was the Taiping "Rebellion" and the defenders of the faith had to come in to tame the natives! The world is not exactly waiting for a select bunch of messiahs to bring them Daoism. If it is about "whatever benefits" there only appear in certain quarters the benefits of some bread and butter and intellectual or other posturing. This is going to change in the near future as "the others" and the Chinese are going to speed right past those who stay stagnant in their refusal to change and make available the "whatever" Daosim has to offer (actually Daoism offers nothing!). The outcry this time heralds the change on the Chinese side that was not something I have ever noticed of the usually reserved people when it comes to cultural sensitivity. They do not like others to lose face. I have said that the Westerners are not blandly similar in their attitude or expertise, there were some who were above the usual who like to stick their heads out more. There were complaints about the poor choice of experts for whom invitations were issued. There was a lot of mutual handjobs for both the Chinese and Westerners who were friends of each other, never mind their standing. That said, there were plenty of opportunities for Westerners to meet with the Chinese but the majority were just plain clueless and helpless because mum wasn't around though some simply want to come and chalk up some points to shore up their sagging "Daoist" credential to impress those outside China with. Just have a look on the internet in the weeks to come more and more comedians would appear to do exactly that! Blaming the Chinese for whatever is not going to help them if these Westerners are ineffectual in the first place. I would want to get straight back to the drawing board and redesign myself if I belong to that category of hapless fools who simply seize up in a foreign country. In the very near future and internationally, more and more Daoists from China are going to appear alongside and mostly in front of these contemporary Western "experts". I would worry about that if I still insist on sticking to that old habit of thinking the rest of the world revolves around me. I saw plenty of that. I saw people who thought the Chinese should remain Uncle Tongs, should provide them with the means to their bread n butter, should remain in the shadow while the "civilised" tell the rest of the world how their countries should be run and what Daosim should be. Unfortunately for them I noticed the Chinese were not so happy about playing the "happy natives" nowadays and that caused a fair bit of resentment among the Lord and Lady Jims. The Chinese were not particularly interested either in any of the others who had that uncontrollable urge to get their eroticism from exhibiting themselves or indulging themselves fantasizing they were some kind of "intellectuals" the Chinese would be keen to suppress. Nevertheless I thought the Chinese did well struggling to be mildly amused and trying not to fall into deep sleep around these latter day saints from the Western Daoist pantheons. My son, just when are you going to liberate Ayers Rock for the natives, eh? Do that and impress the rest of us first! Then you might just have the experience and the cred to save Daoism from the Chinese! The Chinese would like more to know where the Oz native reservations are, you do the "rain dance", play the digeridoo, ride a kangeroo, speak Abo than you pretend you are any authority on Daoism! If you do go up Uluru try not to do your "Taiji" on it, you might scare the spirits and the natives might just push you over it before you ask to push hands! We may be deprived of yet another saviour for Daoism! There's piss under Heaven, indeed!

Sickweird, esteemed disciple of Croc Dundee, Unlike in certain quarters where it is highly desirable for the pervs to see the hidden tatooes on others' it is considered very bad manner to ask to "push" with anybody even after a few meetings! This is usually 'formally' asked for after a person got to know the someone else he is itching to test his ego out on. When 'personal space' is so protected with many in some culture, these people do not seen to know pushing hands with a stranger is intrusive (a fight is something else!)? I used to have to, until I got really fed-up, arrange for friends to be used as free one- or two-arm bandits for twacks to try on. Like playing tennis (or pingpong) the better players do not want to play with the upstarts, nothing to do with being afraid to put them where they belong. Once I had to tell a perv someone didn't want to push hands because he was already overwhelmed by the body odour of the upstart and not by as the upstart imagined a fear of his skill! I already told you, short of a head-butt I showed you I could have done on you, the poor postures of Chu's is that there are a lot of faults with his "Taiji"! It is full of holes that can be penetrated I cannot even begin to begin pointing them out. Not only the postures are wrong with points I made, the whole "form" is bizarre! Totally contrary to Taiji as taught by even Master Yang Shouzhong! Chu's "Taiji" and his stunts are in a world of its own. A totally different class called no class! I pointed out to you and this is not my opinion alone, there were others among the delegates who quickly saw the abberrations on you that is Chu's unique gift to the world - a sure guarantee to produce stiffness, rigidity and brain-numbing ignorance caused by the incestrous effort among his thickheads to praise each other for their grasp of the "gift". I told you to watch your knees in particular, there are plenty more you should watch out for. The best thing is to try other forms, other teachers, other styles let others tell you a thing or two, relax and listen and not go on the defensive that others are being "superior". With Chu's "Taiji" it is so inferior that it is a vomit! Only thing I can praise is the cultish stupidity of students who utter the same stock phrases for their "art" and adopt that same smug attitude that they are the "real works" - just the stuff marketing people like! Few bother to exercise their freedom to look beyond their coven and to wonder why there are like no one else from among the YSZ lineage, not that lineage is everything..! I do not say what I say because there is that tendency among practitioners of martial arts that their's is the "best", Chu's herd is famous for this attitude too. As said, I have nothing against him personally, we come across each other from time to time and I have not retracted any of my remarks about his "Taiji" or his circus stuff. Many of his instructors jumped his lee kee boat and join us after our seminars on Taiji in the past - soon as they saw the vast difference that had they remain little frogs in a drainpipe they would have become that sycophantic yesmen willingly participating in those demos of "Taiji" and "qi". As there are plenty of evidence of such "power" on the Net I also have plenty of videos of shocked instructors and senior students of Chu's waking up to reality. Give yourself a chance, venture a bit afield. Be brave, confront yourself go out to the wide world and learn more. "You ain't seen nothing yet!" Like for a meet-up I wanted to organise between the Chinese and the foreigners for the "intellectual" sidepfthe conference I wanted to do one for the martial arts - the very able daughter of the late Master Wang Xiangzhai was among the delegates but in the end I found the gulf was wider between the eyes of some than between two groups of people! Good sense told me that I would be wasting everybody's time, especially mine! No need for that humbly, forgiveness apologising stuff, I am happy to claim my right to free speech and do not give a monkey to how grown men's ego taking a bit of bruising! Much of advancement of a martial art is about the ability to find as many mistake as one can of one's practice and then making up for that. Some of the comments of the original post were mine, but not solely mine. Most were from the Chinese and some were from "the foreigners". I have been doing the groupie stuff with a lot of Chinese huddling around one or two computers reading posts on all sorts of forums and all trying to make comments. Sadly, I have to hold onto many of those views in the original post. There are more than those in the original post which we have all patched together. Good news is nowadays the Chinese are not inhibited as in the past about giving it back half as good - washed out foreign visitors are washed out foreign visitors. When the washed out have all the four cheeks to make their opinion about the Chinese and China, they should start learning to take it from the Chinese or anybody else. It is about confronting themselves, their shallowness, and their inability to turn their right cheeks. Laozi would have said "What a cheek!". A good start would be to start treating others as they would like to be treated, to travel more, to open mind and absorb more, to be courageous when mum is not around to wipe their asses and they become emotionally crippled! As this is my own post I would like to act that some behaved like some downright selfish little sods which did not get them anywhere. I also have to say some people from among the organising/management of the conference needed their rear ends kicked. Watch this space - more to come!