nightwatchdog

Just out of curiosity, how many hours a day do you cruise Taobums, on average?

Welcome to the forum! There's a new Glenn Morris thread in our Taoist Discussion forum. Hope to see you there!

Welcome to the Forum Dan. Look forward to seeing what you have to say in the Taoist discussion forum. Cheers!

Hi Yue! Welcome to the board. It looks like your first thread is getting a lot of attention. Hope you can clarify some of your thoughts and find what you are looking for among us.

Now that is the very best advice of all! "Those who know little, have much to say. Those who know much, have little to say." - The Old Master

The thrusting vessel is one of the Eight Extraordinary Vessels, distinct from the more commonly known Twelve Meridians. The Thrusting Vessel runs along the inside of the spine, from the tailbone to the top of the inside of the brain, and down to the roof of the mouth. The Thrusting Vessel is mirrored by the more commonly known Governing Vessel, which runs from the perinium, up the outside of the spine, and over the top of the head to the upper lip. To explain further requires a knowledge of the way the Microcosmic orbit works. Essentially the Water path is the same as the Fire path, which is used in the ordinary Microcosmic orbit. The difference is that the Water Path sends Chi up the Thrusting Vessel instead of up the Governing Vessel. This is done because the Jing collected in the lower Dan Tien will start to follow the Chi up the spine over time until it reaches the brain (specifically the Upper Dan Tien). This is considered preferable because the Sacrum and bones of the skull are said to "thrust" spinal fluid and Chi into the brain cavity nourishing the nervous tissue along the way. Essentially you are taking advantage of a natural phenomenon in order to bring the Jing to the Upper Dan Tien. There the Jing pools and collects, mixing with the Chi that it's been following, and alchemically the two transform into pure Shen. At that point the Shen can be gathered and used to achieve enlightenment or immortality. Again, for me this is all theory, though. I have yet to achieve any of these methods successfully in my personal practice. For real instruction, you need someone who has been there. If you find this person, let me know.

According to Yang Jwing Ming's Chi Kung books: Chi running through the microcosmic orbit up the conception vessel and down the governing vessel is known as the Wind path. This method runs counter to the natural flow. The natural flow runs down the conception vessel and up the governing vessel, which is known as the Fire path. Normally adherents run the MCO according to the natural flow, favoring the Fire path. This is considered the safest method and the easiest to perform. Some systems choose the Wind path, because it is thought to be more powerful than Fire, allowing quick development of all kinds of abilities. Unfortunately it is also thought to be much more dangerous. The Chi built up this way MUST be returned to it's natural path once the exercise is complete, and complete concentration must be maintained throughout. That means if there's an earthquake, the phone rings, someone knocks on the door, or you suddenly must respond to something important without finishing your exercise, you are in real trouble. If you fail to return the flow to it's proper path immedeatly, serious health compromises are inevitable. Supposedly it only takes a moment of inattention to have major problems. The Water path is an advanced method that brings the Chi down the Conception vessel, and then up the Thrusting Vessel, bypassing the Governing vessel altogether. This method is commonly taught in the Marrow/Brain Washing system of Chi Kung, and is supposed to raise the Shen very quickly. Jing storage using celibacy and or sexual kungfu is very important using the Water path, because ultimately the Jing is used to directly nourish the Shen mixing with Chi in the Upper Dan Tien instead of the Lower Dan Tien. I have no personal experience with any of these methods, but I thought passing along the information from a Chi Kung master would be helpful.

You think that's boring? Mindfulness meditation practice, aka zazen, aka emptiness, aka vipassana, aka sitting and forgetting.... etc. etc... Now... Where was I? Oh yeah, just watching and letting go of the near constant mental babbling in my head is all the small talk I need or want. In fact I want as little of that as possible... which is the point of the practice. I've noticed that many people who do not do some kind of awareness practice have no idea that most of what we tend to say (and think!) is pretty meaningless chatter designed to make us feel like there's a "me" and an "other" here in the first place. I used to hate small talk, and more importantly small talkers too, but now I have much more sympathy. Gosh, stream of consciousness writing is so boring. I'll stop now.

It appears that the monks are trying to "come clean" now, if you read the article. Unfortunately, they are not allowed to point out why this is happening in the first place... but most of us already know (I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with Cultural Revolution). This sad fact of life isn't the fault of the monks who came before, nor of the new monks who are trying to rebuild. This is the fault of a government who wanted to wash away these teachings because they interfered with the agenda of the day. From what I gather, the monks at Wudang are trying very hard to be the real thing. Unlike the situation at Shaolin, the real ordained priests are keeping monks vows, following vegetarian diets, overseeing ceremonies for the public, observing daily meditation, and training martial arts. They are still actively seeking former members of the original temple (some of whom have returned I might add), as well as talented martial artitists who wish to share and train. If you don't like what you see there, they have requested instruction from numerous masters over the years. Anyone who feels they can do better is free to go and show. Shaolin and Wudang are not what they were, but both temples have been destroyed and rebuilt many times over thousands of years. Wudang is still being rebuilt now. The question is, what will be taught there to future generations? If we expect good Wudang Gongfu, then it requires an effort on the part of the people who have benefited from the Wudang lineage being maintained long enough for them to learn a piece; Masters who are willing to share thier knowledge. If no one shares, how can we blame the monks for the "failure?"

there's an intersting interview in Kung fu Taichi magazine this month with a Wudang Martial Monk: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/a...php?article=720 Unfortunately the article isn't available online, but that's the issue. I have to paraphrase because I don't remember the details precisely, but essentially this particular monk says that Wudang was "reopened" about 20 years ago by the PRC. Very similar story to Shaolin. There were a few old monks still living there, who were basically trying to keep the temple from falling apart. Internal martial arts masters were invited to teach a group of young pre-teen kids at the temple, while the old monks taught them history, meditation, and so on. After a year, about a dozen of the kids took vows as monks, and recieved advanced training from the Martial artists and the old monks over a decade or so. The temple was then turned over to thier care, with the old monks staying on as a Council of Elders. The new monks run the place, see to the teaching of new monks, and lay people. So basically it was "revived" in a very similar way to Shaolin. They had no electricity or running water until a few years ago. Aparently tourism there has been booming since "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", so the PRC has been pumping more money into the place. The monk interviewed has opened a training center in the U.S.A., and is hoping to be allowed to spread Wudang teachings internationally.

Thank you, we're here all week. Be sure to visit the souvenier shop in the lobby!

Oh no, those combat applications were very fake. No gong ji at all. Here is an example of superb combat gong ji.

Some of us need to learn to walk before we are ready to run... to the nearest sky scraper.... and jump off... without a parachute...

Welcome Fire Dragon! I've had some experience with a White Tiger system of Chi Kung, but I'm not familiar with a "White Tigress" system. As far as I know, the Chinese don't differentiate between male and female tigers in ordinary language just as we don't usually in English (i.e. usually we just say "tiger", Chinese "Hu" or "Fu"). If that's the case, then we can probably compare notes in the future, if not, I'd love to hear more. At any rate, welcome to the forum, and I hope you continue to experience ever increasing health benifits through your practice. Bodhi

In the case of Hsing-i, I suppose it depends on who you think the founder(s) of that art were. The commonly accepted legendary founder is General Yue Fei, who was born in Hunan, and who trained in Shaolin spear among other arts. Supposedly he added Taoist chi kung methods his stuff, while simplifying the gross movements so that it could be taught to peasant soldiers quickly, a sort of early crash-course bootcamp if you will. This would point to Shaolin origions. If you are of the Ji Lung Fung camp, then you ignore what Ji said about the origions of his art himself, i.e. that he learned it from a text that he acquired on Wudang mountain that had been written by Yue Fei. If that's the case and Ji founded it himself, then Hsing-i would be a Wudang method, if he trained it at Wudang... I guess. The accepted I-Chuan, Shanxi, Hebei, Ermei, and Wudang branches all claim Hsing-i origionates from one of these two individuals, and that the flavors are due to regional differences acquired over the last 400 years of refinement. Of course, I could be horribly mistaken, but really, aside from trying to pass along the "historical" tradition, it dosen't matter to me where it's from. I only care that it works. Those monks are doing a bang-up job, either way.

What is the kunlun posture, exactly?

I practiced Chi Hsing Tang Lang Chuan (Seven Star Praying Mantis), a Northern style, for a brief period. I was already heavily into the internal martial arts at that time though, and I found many of the postures to be at odds with internal methods of generating power. Southern Tong Long is a different animal altogether though. It's sometimes called the "Internal Mantis Style" among Chinese martial artists, and it does not resemble Northern mantis even preferally.

I'd say they are for the most part absolutely correct. One thing to note here though: superior martial artists are ALWAYS superior athletes as well. It is possible to gradually and safely build Chi and Jing to a level that allows you to move athletically, and enjoy a high level of fitness without expending Chi. To use your example, Chi is more like a line of credit attached to your savings than a checking account. The more Jing you have, the more Chi you may "borrow against." You strengthen your Chi through Chi Kung, and ideally you nourish and build Jing as well. Abundant Jing + strong Chi = health. Add Li to that and you have a fit AND healthy person. As far as training is concerned, it's not an either/or proposition. Its all in how you go about the task. If I were interested in running a marathon, most western coaches would tell me to just hit the track and run a few miles every day. The goal would be faster and longer runs accomplished as quickly as possible. I might use vitamins as a supplement, I'd treat sore muscles (which I'd have in spades) with hot showers and lots of pain killers, and I'd be careful not to "waste" any effort in any other way. I'd be too exhausted to do anything else anyway. Using western methods I'd be able to run the marathon in a few months, though I'd have no chance of winning. I'd also be completly drained and possibly injured afterword. An internal martial artist who was coaching me for the marathon would suggest a totally different method. I would undergo a strong Chi Kung practice coupled with an herbal tonic that builds and protects Jing. I would start walking or slow jogging very gradually, and add distance and speed over a period of months. It would probably take me about 6 months to get to where most runners first start out. As my Chi Kung practice got stronger, it would support my running practice, and they'd build up together. Using this method, I'd be ready for a marathon in three or four years... depending on the venue I'd probably win, and I'd recover from the event very fast with little to no chance of injury. These anecdotes are supported by my personal experience, but again, I submit that this is the very approach used by all of the major internal martial arts. The masters who use these methods are some of the healthiest, strongest, longest lived people in the world, with Chi development that far exceeds the norm even among most Chi Kung practitioners.

What style of Tong Long Chuan do you practice, Mal?

Welcome to the Forum! You're in the right place.

Welcome to the forum, LDiR! Alot of us have traveled along similar paths in our lives. It's great to see someone such as yourself walking the talk. Cheers! Bodhi

Hey, AbandonEgo! I love your username. I almost went with Nomind myself, but I knew I'd never be able to live up to the moniker, lol. Anyhow, welcome to the forum!

Internal martial arts have cardiovascular components built right in, so there is a very reliable precedent for cardio fitness. Even Yang Taichi has a fast set, and it's one of the "softest" styles out there. I see no reason not to include it, just build up your fitness slowly and gradually, avoiding excessive work that exhausts you. You want to feel energized after exercising, not wiped-out.

"The Wisdom of Insecurity" by Alan Watts is a great start. It gives a basic overview of what's wrong with western society, and why you are feeling what you are feeling now. It's a great little easy read. I'd also consider the "Tao of Pooh" and "The te of Piglet". Alot of people pooh-pooh these two, but most western taoists have read these books early on in thier studies whether they liked to admit it or not. You should follow thier example. You'll have fun, and get a little overview on some Taoist concepts. You can always deny reading them later, like everyone else has. I also suggest "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Zen Living". It seems like what most people really need in your situation is a "daily habit overhaul." Until you start aquiring healthy habits, all the reading of the classics will do is confuse you. If that's what you are looking for, this book foots the bill. In spite of the Zen title, it is about as Daoist as you can get. You'll find it's simple textbook style approach to be very easy to read, apply and absorb. Once you've read these, and started a basic emptiness meditation practice (You'll learn it in 'Zen Living'), then I'd start exploring classics such as Tao te Ching and Chuang Tzu. Good Luck! Bodhi

What system or style is it from? Is it something you've studied extensively?