Franklin

he teaches them basically just like they are in the book... i learned them in a seminar i attended with him the five animal frolics are basically just like in the book as well.... his eight brocades are a nice variation of the set he says they can be done to the eight direction to harmonize with the energy of the different directions/trigrams i think the dumbbell thing is an easy and quick way to get western people to have the mind intent for the movement- (maybe a slightly different mind intent from the hands supporting heaven in his book "complete system of self healing" he gives a program to follow in his prescriptions section it is actually a very nice book franklin

found a great site with lots of old photos from Hedda Morrison http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/heddamorrison/ franklin

thanks for posting this i just found this topic... would anyone have this page it seems to be missing from imageshack shuigong7 thanks franklin

right now i have some arugula, swiss chard, beets, collard greens, parsley, lemon grass, mint, eggplant, peppers, and banana growing also just picked up some baby chicks the other day... i used to help a friend out at his organic farm... and learned a bunch there... been doing some research for my home i think i am going to try to do some permaculture ideas.. (very cool stuff) can check out this youtube channel for some ideas about what it is http://www.youtube.com/user/permascience last year i had some raised beds and grew loofah, eggplant, beans, and pepper they were the regular raised beds- piling up the soil, using compost, etc i think i will try it again but with the permaculture idea of no dig gardening basically you lay cardboard down and then you pile up lots of hay (a couple feet thick) and soak it good with water you plant the seedlings right into the hay with a handful or two of dirt and as things grow you just keep mulching the top with the pant trimmings supposed to simulate the topsoil production that takes place naturally in a forest- all the leaves fall and decompose to make a very rich and futile topsoil ugFd1JdFaE0& Xa9yMjsSQC0& lQmPT6jfttc& Franklin

I have learned and practiced Soaring Crane before I must have missed the part of the practice that involves spontaneous movement- i learned the 5 routines and standing meditation- never was instructed or practiced any spontaneous movement... the standing that i learned as part of this set was just holding the ball (embracing) posture at the level of the upper, middle, and lower dan tiens and then a closing movement i learned the first routine years and years ago from my first taiji teacher- we used it as a warm up sometimes did not know what it was until i learned the the soaring crane set about 9 or ten years ago... don't really practice it much now... but it is a good medical or general qi gong i don't understand what is dangerous about it when i heard about that i tried to search online to find out what happened... and all i could find was that one of the hand gestures where changed - as the hand passes downward by the head the direction of the palm was changed slightly so that the acupoint in the head would not be overly energized- (or something to that effect) soaring crane is a great general set... for someone looking to get into qi gong practice i would say that some of the benefits include: doesn't take too long or too short works most of the body is not just a couple movements repeated (makes you feel like you really learned something- and not too boring to practice includes standing mediation at the end (was told that is the most important part) and some of the cons would be: its a modern form but supposedly has a good track record as a medical qi gong don't know anything about Chi-Lel Franklin

that could work or it could go horribly horribly wrong.... lol

lol i don't think so... they will try to knock on the front door no matter what....

are you referring to the 5 tigers from the hebei xingyi quan (Tang Shou Tao association) passed down from- Li Tsun Yi Zhang Zhun Feng Hong Yi Xiang Hsu Hong Ji and very popular in the US due to students of Hong Yi Xiang and Hsu Hong Ji for Hebei style xing yi the 5 elements are the most important Pi, Tsuan, Beng, Pao, Heng the 12 animal forms are for further exploring the movements and powers of the 5 elements as well as for conditioning the body some branches might have separate power training for different animals or elements... the five tigers are just five different movements repeated Franklin

dao zhen that sounds interesting what is the goal of your cultivation system? i ask since your teacher went to finish his cultivation and will come back in a couple years is it dragon gate or wudang? your website says you will be documenting dao cultivation practices in china will you release some resources to the english speaking world? if i would have known about your cultivation retreats several years ago while i was living in taiwan i would have probably made it to one... i wish you luck in your endeavor more general- it seems like if a piece of land was bought it could be set up so that various levels of cultivation could take place a public offering of retreats residents who take care of the day to day stuff farming, building, running retreats, etc and cultivating and allowing space and resources for small number of people to undertake serious cultivation efforts it could also be many different practices together within the larger community i remember reading one of Alexandra David-Neal's books where she described the working of the Tibetan monasteries as a sort of melting pot where people were not required to practice any certain thing but were free to study with any teacher that would take them as a student this idea sort of reminds me of eselen but with more resident programs and maybe a toned down offering of public seminars and retreats (eselen has multiple retreats running all year round - like 2 or 3 at the same time) the other option would be what dao zhen mentions as 3-5 people dedicate resources and do it themselves but this way it seems there will be little or no interaction with the rest of the world... china seems like a nice place to start something like this but one draw back might be change as in changing laws and policies and local areas it would be a shame to be 6 years into some serious cultivation and have to move for one reason or another... anyways just some thoughts Franklin

I am interested if anyone has ever learned or practiced a meditation which i will describe briefly below. I learned it years ago and used to practice it regularly (also years ago) i recently got curious to see what it actually is and googleing did not bring back any results at all I did ask my teacher who taught it years ago- and he said he thought it was a zen practice but the person who taught it to him has passed so no way to find out more about it. i call it the energy gate meditation as the practice is to inhale and exhale through different points on the body to the lower dan tien after you concentrate on each individual points- then you breathe through all the points at once... so has anyone learned something like this and maybe some background info etc on the practice? thanks Franklin

thanks SiliconValley and a bump to see if anyone else might have some info franklin

SiliconValley this sounds similar- only i was only taught to breath through the same point on both inhale and exhale and at the end breath through all of the points simultaneously... do you know of any resources on the net that i could find out more about setu kriya or bridge kriya i did a quick google search but did not come up with anything like the practice we are talking about? thanks... thanks to everyone else yes i have read similar practices elsewhere but they all seemed like an isolated thing- ie breathing through just one or a couple points or only something that was similar in passing one of my taiji teachers taught running the microcosmic circle and breathing through the crown and bubbling spring points while practicing... but all these are slightly different to the meditation practice he taught.. the meditation was breathing through a series of points to the lower dan tien and then breathing through all the points simultaneously.... again- thanks to everyone for the suggestions on where to find for info on this practice... franklin

it is not the same as bruce kumar frantis's dissolving practice that is pretty much everything that i come up with when i tried to search... froggie i think i understand what you are saying... but i was kind of hoping that someone had learned something similar i would have to look back at notes to remember but i recall my teacher saying the complete set of points was something like 60 or 80 points.... (crown point is one of them) i always practiced a shorter set with less points then the full regimen i always thought breathing through the points was similar to pore breathing but of course a little more focused and that it was a little bit similar to some of the marrow washing stuff and it did feel similar to some other practices that i learned later that involved pore breathing (yan xin's 9 step method) franklin

i believe he also ate a lot of goji berries bagua might refer to eight section brocade which is also some times called bagua exercises.. at least that was the impression i got from several books published in english stuart olson- has several in which Li Ching-Yuen is mentioned he translated Li's instructions for the eight section brocade (bagua exercises) in his book Qigong Teachings of a Taoist Immortal: The Eight Essential Exercises of Master Li Ching-yun http://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Teachings-Tao...1040&sr=1-3 and Li is briefly mentioned in Steal My Art: The Life and Times of T'ai Chi Master, T.T. Liang as Liang studied with a general named yang who was a student of Li (if i remember correctly) i think Da Lu also briefly mentions Li in some of his books and then of course nine dragon bagua zhang which is also attributed to Li franklin

if i could sit and talk with someone like that I would be interested in: what he or she feels is essential for attainment (like a practice or a series of practices that will lead someone there- as in what the path entails and maybe what the different parts do or how they fit together) and something about what is the attainment- what is the goal- good luck with your move franklin

check this out http://www.universal-tao.com/article/empty.html franklin

i don't know if there is any relationship between wild goose qi gong and soaring crane qi gong. i have practiced soaring crane before- the main practice is 5 separate sections of movement exercises and a final section with standing meditation i also read that the soaring crane was abandoned by the founder and he founded a new style- when i researched this several years ago i could find very little information on the internet- if i remember the very little bit that i did find was something very small like he changed a hand position- something like as the hands sweep downward the palm no longer points to the head but instead downward to me it seemed like a small matter/change and made me think there might be more to the story also i know several people that are long time practitioners of soaring crane and never any problems this qi gong set was taught at the acupuncture college that i attended and if you search the net it seems many others are still teaching it... i found some videos of the 5 sections that are pretty close to what i learned i really also don't know much about Xing Shen Zhuang but this page shows some exercises that are very similar to the ones found within the 5 sets of soaring crane http://www.zhinengqigong.org/Methods/level2.htm it was my understanding that the soaring crane qi gong was a modern form while the wild goose was a very old one... here are the vids of the 5 sections section 1 GaNw1SiGO5I section 2 24fW9IWqmX0 section 3 2H-zpxUhP4Q section 4 yK4zfi3-_kQ section 5 7Ou8cTkTQLg franklin edit- just found a video of the first 64 moves of wild goose qi gong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOodABEfe_w to me it looks like some moves at least in the very beginning are very similar to some in the soaring crane sets interested in hearing more about wild goose: curriculum and methods and good luck with your classes

as a tea for weight loss you can also try a herbal tea blend called BoJenMi it contains chinese herbs for improving digestion and reducing weight http://ezinearticles.com/?Bojenmi-Chinese-...s&id=865529 and http://www.calmspirit.net/herbs/bojenmi.htm for information if you search online i am sure you can find a supply place to chip to you or even at a local herb store maybe... franklin

just to point out most of the "protection" stuff i learned was not about putting a shield up and closing off instead most of it was about cleaning your body and harmonizing your own energy.... sort of like some of the self healing qi gongs where you purge bad energy.... i did learn some practices that would also protect or shield also just to point out that sometimes protection is a valid aspect of energy stuff i had one teacher describe certain things that must be done before "astral travel" protections that must be put in place before you leave so that when you come back you can and be the only thing back and also some summoning rituals (taoist)- that can be fatal because of the power of what is summoned my opinion thus far is yes it is all qi just like death will just be a qi transformation but i still like to wear my seat belt when i drive my car... ------------------------ so do you guys have any thoughts on the role of sickness and disease- as a teacher or as the result of your karma or past deeds and if so how do you see the role of the healer as dealing with those aspects? just curious franklin

i have learned a couple of different ways to protect yourself while doing energy healing all the treatment room in the yosan clinic where i did my internship had that invocation on the wall i also learned a meditation to get rid of any bad energy that you might have picked up while treating people (this was not part of one of the main classes- i think it was a sort of footnote to a qi gong class i took at the school if i remember correctly) and a way to harmonize the treatment space by drawing the taiji tu (i think in some of master ni's books he also talks about this) one of my good friends who works with the energy of spaces (zahori)- showed me a way to harmonize and energize space as well- other teachers that i had also taught different methods some were breathing methods and movements of energy that must be kept up during the entire treatment and another teacher instructed to scrub yourself with salt after treatments- up to the elbow for most treatments and a whole body scrub after an intense treatment or every so often... and some other miscellaneous methods i think it was also discussed about energy exchange between people but i think this happens all the time- as was stated and not just during treatments maybe why one of the tenets of cultivation is to choose your associations wisely while on the path and i think there might be something to it when people say as they cultivate should stay away from crowds i went through a period of time where it was very hard to be in a crowded space- it was very uncomfortable also my teachers stressed to get permission before treating- of course you could treat anyway if you liked and it would still work the same but the idea being that without permission it is sort of an intrusive act (you were not invited) just some thoughts.. franklin

some will probably claim that this is his return and that it is the end of time

lol i beat everyone to it by posting it friday.... hahaha there is a link to the pdf version with just the daoyin and a full version of the text with other essays from here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=7116&hl= and mjjbecker uploaded the full text to rapidshare here is his post form the other thread... from here http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=7131&hl= just thought i would put all the links together on one thread- so people can find what they need.... has anyone learned the daoyin for the 24 seasons from a teacher- is this tradition still alive? i know there is translation of this and other materials "ancient way to keep fit" by shelter publications.. franklin

just found this online and thought that it might be of some interest to the community Kung-Fu, or Tauist Medical Gymnastics by John Dudgeon [1895] has eight section brocade five animal frolics daoyin for the seasons lots more daoyin and much more i haven't had a chance to look at all of it yet at sacred texts http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/kfu/index.htm and here is the pdf you can download http://libweb.uoregon.edu/ec/e-asia/read/kungfu.pdf or i found a pdf of the entire text including other essays http://www.archive.org/details/beveragesofchine00dudgrich franklin

i did read a bunch of his books while i was attending TCM school- they had them all in the library.. it was his sons' school after all... thanks for the recommendations... i will probably check them out after i read the ones that i just ordered... currently my personal practice is something different (Tao Dan Pai Nei Kung) but every now and then i do the 5 cloud as i find it very relaxing... i have never really worked with connecting with the planets while practicing it though is that what you mean by the golden light attunement being part of it and how does the micro cosmic orbit fit into it (i never learned that as part of it) the main part that i learned was just the circulation through he 5 organs with the colors i don't have any of the fang song gong on video yet next week i am going to be working to make more DVDs... take care Franklin

Thanks Stigweard i ordered a couple of his books the other day and it just occurred to me i could ask here to see which ones are more representative of his teachings... the ones i ordered were- mystisism, inner view of the universe, and workbook for spiritual development some of these i think i read before while i was attending TCM school- also learned a bunch of his practices such as 8 treasures, dao yin, some meditation... what kind of nei dan do you practice? the Yang Sheng (nourishing life) practices- not to be confused with Yang Shen (spiritual baby) is my own understanding after years of study i try to put qi gong practice into a larger perspective for my students so instead of just practicing a qi gong set i would like them to investigate further and understand the basic ideas of taoist health maintenance and how we can live more in harmony with the cycles that are all around us (daily, yearly, etc) mostly it is based on my study of taoist practice and TCM and i give the student the choice of studying several different standing qi gong sets that i have learned i find it is important that the student likes what they are practicing (that way they practice) as there is no one qi gong set for everyone i also introduce some seated practice and other things i have learned on the way like Fang Song Gong, posture, breathing etc... i am currently writing a book that will cover this stuff (and also working on some other stuff as well ) as for the other things that i teach if you go to this page of my website http://www.internalkungfu.org/franklinfick.html it outlines who i have trained with and what i learned from who it also lists my teaching experience if you have any further questions please ask and i will try to answer to the best of my ability Franklin