3bob

"a golden-white-light-arc-torch that an indomitable being is" - already has full comprehension thus such a torch is directed with compassion as needed and not just as uncontrolled, white light fire burning everything before it.

and even the golden-white-light-arc-torch that an indomitable being is can cry in compassion in the midst of helping a relatively illiterate mankind

Spotless, does that (end of post 16) translate to? : there isn't really any illusion - it is actually all reality

like the principle that in trying to force someone to be good is bad... thus it can't really be done that way. (is what I'm hearing) btw, there is a sub-forum called "women's cultivation" (which I've never visited yet) that you may want to check out...

judgmental or not judgmental - is something to look at about both...

people look everywhere for "that"; sometimes just like a historic Buddha we hear about did and who upon finding "that" and afterwards along with the help of a gods reminder could then no longer continue being just a lone and "selfish" forest dweller...

Grasping for straws with clubs in the dark via post 6? Are you impressionable Ms. snake? (which it partly sounds like to me and for what it might be worth?) Remember its often the "wild, wild west" out here on the internet with all sorts of gun slingers.

it's always going to "work out" perfectly, although it may not seem that way via attachment. Also, we had help making attachments and we will need help making un-attachments, thus eggs can fly but only after the bird hatch's out...deny not the nest tenders.

A certain violence takes place that is not based on or motivated by violence from "it" at all... such is the violent reaction of egotism coming up against the irresistible force and unmovable object that Truth is, for something has to and will give way in that situation - namely the King Rat of the hill. To be a king rat, or not to be a king rat, that is also the question...

agreed in a way Michael, although in the physical if one, "lives by the sword they will die by the sword". Thus such a method will not work or apply in the spiritual realms of lesser and lesser ego self.

...if dropped properly it can go on the shelf yet still be picked up for some use, at some time, for someone somewhere, or it can disappear.

...which I'd say is also limiting of "mystery"since any ism as thelerner has reminded us, is packing something around no matter how reasonable it may seem to us. Granted one may have preferences as a particular being as we all do but then again if one has gotten a taste (so to speak) of the mystery that can't be nailed down then they will tend to no longer nail themselves or any others down even with golden-titanium alloy nails, since one's preferences via their intuition then shifts them towards the non-nail-able down mystery - which potentially opens up when various nails are no longer needed and let go of... (along with the hammers) Thus even a very handy rat with a hammer on top of the hill is still just a rat who will be replaced by the next shrewder rat that comes along.

I did look up that "awakening" title at the Krisnamurti website but have not yet found the particular text you mentioned within it ... thus if you could supply a link I'll then take a look at it. Anyway, I think the quote that I submitted from his site should give anyone pause and caution considering how narrow minded and generalized it is on many counts - which doesn't mean such as he said never happens. (and of which there is also proof of with characters like Osho in Oregon, who went by a different name back then)

I have a question for traditional Hindus or those who follow traditional Hindu ways concerning Lord Ganesha. (who is a very important and key god in Hinduism!) For instance why does or would Lord Siva say worship His son first before trying to worship Him? I have some trouble with that because of my Christian background of reserving worship for the Supreme God, while honoring and respecting all other divine beings which is who Lord Ganesha would be if he was recognized in Christianity. (Btw, I realize there are various sects of Hinduism, and that some see or believe rather differently - namely with the comparative positions or importance of the Gods and or Goddess's of Ganesha, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahama, Kali and her different forms, Krishna, etc. (etc.) as in representing the Supreme Being to them. Thanks ahead of time for your input

Hmm, JK. often said things like that underlined below in a quote from him, along with the rest of it: "You know, a great many gurus from India have come to this country, like a great many missionaries have gone to the East it is their turn to come now. And they are going to pollute your mind as the missionaries have also polluted the other minds. These gurus with their tradition, with their peculiar assertion wrought in tradition, their authority which demands obedience, compliance, conformity, and with their groups, with their ashrams, it has become now in this country a form of concentration camp. You know the word 'guru' means, amongst many other things, one who removes ignorance, one who points the way, one who relieves you of your burden. The root meaning of that word, I have been told, means weight. And unfortunately these gurus that come here give you their burden, they don't relieve you of your burdens but they foist onto you their ignorance, their problem, their systems. And unfortunately here, people are so gullible, accept something that comes from the ancient country, with their ancient culture, and their mysterious religions, superstitions, beliefs and all that ritual. And it would have been very good if you had never heard of that word, if you had not accepted anything, then you could listen afresh, then you would be able to examine the thing for itself, not what you have been told, or your own particular experience, or what you think it should be" (copied from the Krishnamurti website under books)

until one has at least a few key understandings of what a true guru is then all of the negative connotations and stories about false, dubious or half-baked gurus can easily dominate and even be taken as truisms... which is really missing the quintessential meaning, purpose and greatness of a true guru, which is apparently (as heard in his own words) exactly what happened to J.K..

"that which is against the Tao will soon cease to be", and human beings can not take the Tao into their own hands which is a lot of what this string sounds like we would prefer to do. (in one way or another like with violence or in pity)

fanatically blind disrespect of religion is no better than fanatically blind respect of religion.

Stefos, Yes, I have studied his life to some degree, both through reading several of his books and from other sources. (along with your submissions like this "funny guy" feeding the groupies video) I'm not into being ranked at all. Btw, I can make that statement based on certain facts that I've been fortunate enough to come across, while his opinions are generally put-downs and denials of traditions and the people of same that have experiential being-ness and knowledge far beyond his shallow stance of being an anti-guru guru. I'd add that I think he did come up with some gems at times in his writings, so I'm not against everything he said...

interesting that Mr. J. K. was also a misinformed funny guy who hardly knew what he was talking about...

The way some people "update" via private or group work arounds is one thing but the original and 3 main Abrahamic doctrines can not be updated without being chopped up in the sense of being largely and in some ways essentially rewritten since they were and remain written in non-flexible, non-updatable stone. Sure - there are many groups that make their own interpretations and updates but they do not follow original doctrine and should not pretend that they are under the umbrella of the original or use names that imply such. For instance there is no such thing as an Abrahamic faith claiming to be based on original doctrine that can allow even a fraction of the modern day work arounds or updates and still stay true to non-flexible doctrine craved in stone.

in the sense that spiritual science is possible, I agree

so we have accepted vast contradictions in doctrine that can not be trusted by laymen or the heads of a religion to show the way to universal unity and peace among mankind... no wonder people sometimes choose atheism. If it were not for my inner experiences related to Sages, Gods, Spirit, etc, I could have gone mad long ago trying to reconcile un-reconcilable doctrines of the Abrahamic religions... (even with the tricks of esoteric study)

if a doctrine lays things out in black and white that can not be taken out of context, (per same) it is a disservice to any party to say that that doctrine was taken out of context....

and how could that have possibly been in post 106 if they were following their Muslim doctrine? (thus and mostly in spite of their doctrine were they being human)