3bob

A possible line of study: (as previously mentioned) http://swami-krishnananda.org/chhand/ch_1g.html

Try study of the Chandogya Upanishad, for instance: 8th PRAPÂTHAKA 1st KHANDA: "1. Harih, Om. There is this city of Brahman (the body), and in it the palace, the small lotus (of the heart), and in it that small ether. Now what exists within that small ether, that is to be sought for, that is to be understood. 2. And if they should say to him: 'Now with regard to that city of Brahman, and the palace in it, i. e. the small lotus of the heart, and the small ether within the heart, what is there within it that deserves to be sought for, or that is to be understood?' 3. Then he should say: 'As large as this ether (all space) is, so large is that ether within the heart. Both heaven and earth are contained within it, both fire and air, both sun and moon, both lightning and stars; and whatever there is of him (the Self) here in the world, and whatever is not (i. e. whatever has been or will be), all that is contained within it.' 4. And if they should say to him: 'If everything that exists is contained in that city of Brahman, all beings and all desires (whatever can be imagined or desired), then what is left of it, when old age reaches it and scatters it, or when it falls to pieces?' 5. Then he should say: 'By the old age of the body, that (the ether, or Brahman within it) does not age; by the death of the body, that (the ether, or Brahman within it) is not killed. That (the Brahman) is the true Brahma-city (not the body 1). In it all desires are contained. It is the Self, free from sin, free from old age, from death and grief, from hunger and thirst, which desires nothing but what it ought to desire, and imagines nothing but what it ought to imagine. Now as here on earth people follow as they are commanded, and depend on the object which they are attached to, be it a country or a piece of land, 6. 'And as here on earth, whatever has been acquired by exertion, perishes, so perishes whatever is acquired for the next world by sacrifices and other good actions performed on earth. Those who depart from hence without having discovered the Self and those true desires, for them there is no freedom in all the worlds. But those who depart from hence, after having discovered the Self and those true desires, for them there is freedom in all the worlds. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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the gate can only be approached but not passed unless all is dropped before it, for what must be dropped remains with and belongs with the One.

There is that saying, "unity in diversity", but I only see that being true if one has attained a transcendent reality that is free of the diverse effects and divisions existent in diversity by living in and acting from a non-dualistic reality! Thus and in effect we have a nice sounding platitude since most "spiritual masters" and or schools are dedicated to maintaining and propagating their own separate divisions and or special interests separate from "unity" thus imo the saying mostly has to be taken conditionally and not literally or unconditionally. Your take?

I feel that the manifest can be known down to the next splitting of hairs (so to speak) or down to the next sub-atomic particle or whatever the next form of energy that comes to be known is, yet that process of knowing will never completely satisfy, resolve doubts or give a final answer since the next splitting of hairs is always pushing towards a horizon that can never quite be reached in using only such inferred methods... for something "undefined" or of Mystery is needed to finally meet the horizon or in fanciful terms "find the end of the rainbow". She is just out of reach as her touch heals me and that is well.

Ah, some agreement going on :-) and that is a good observation about difference in terms or "strange words". I don't know much about Chinese terms but does the saying from chapter one of the TTC have some bearing on what you brought up? "These two flow from the same source, though differently named; And both are called mysteries. The Mystery of mysteries is the Door of all essence." About one more year of full time work and I might retire, later gotta run. Bob

"Therefore the only "time" there was no time or space was when there was Singularity and since nothing existed during that "time" there is no record of it ever being a condition that existed." by MH. The "singularity" or Mystery existed at that so called time which is also now, and only that can know that which is not just a memory of or in the past or future. Yet there is also space and time through The One, The Two, and The Three, etc. powered by said Mystery which is always now. In other words the eternal transformations going on via The One, The Two and The Three, etc.. do so in cycles while the singularity or as is sometimes pointed to as "no-thing" does not cycle or change as all woven things do. (with woven things or forms not being able to enter or return to "no-space" unless transformed back to no-thing; which btw could be insane and or enlightening fun to ponder over... :-)

well that side deal is not a separate deal because of the connection, so yes on the side of change there is of course change but in chapter 43 we have, "Only Nothing can enter no-space". (or no-thing which I've always heard as a better term without the connotations of nothing) Anyway, I'd say there is no change in said "no-space" which includes no-time as we know normally know it.

Well hello Mr. MH, If one refers to chapter 25 of the TTC one will find, "Standing alone without change", (John Wu translation) yet I agree with you about the dynamic side or connection of things which is alluded to through the itineration's of The One, The two, The Three, etc.. (and that first connection point and how it can be or work along with other proceeding connections are also a great mystery!)

nope, although a connection yes.

That which changes is not that which doesn't change, for if such were so then all would be the "vanity of vanities".

Actually there are many mystics (over thousands of years) who have zero problem with the term "god" or "God" and its common meaning, while Buddhist doctrine is unconcerned with or even anti-God, or from a certain pov. one might say in denial of god thus those that profess Buddhist doctrine are in effect standing against many other mystics that have realized "God". By the way, there are never ending debates among Buddhists themselves of a so called mystic nature (as in all their different schools and teachers per such variations) as to what Buddha nature really means...(?) and in recognizing that fact which is also and often in effect among many other types of paths (besides Buddhism and "God" paths) which results in a condition where most "mystics" are more or less in the same problematic and non-unified boat as many non-mystics. (although in some cases such may be a little or a lot more subtle - but that is often the only difference)

wouldn't that be the same as dropping relative reality or the iteration's of the manifest, then there would be no beings, minds or souls to talk about this stuff. Further if that which already is already knows or is "what is" then why not leave it at that? (since the meaning is that nothing is ever gained or lost by no-thing or "what is" ?)

"that which is" is without divisions and thus transcendent to and free of the itineration's that make up diversity.

with the mention of "god" (and or its meaning) would you say that then leaves out all or basically most of Buddhism because of its key teachings?

not a bad come-back but imo the subject didn't really need a questionable metaphor in the first place...

having a cup that is ready to have help patching it holes is one thing, but any teacher thinking he or she is going to fill someone else's cup or a student expecting such is foolish.

Dr. Phil is not my guru because: (fill in for those interested) 1. he is a blamer 2.

3. he has to keep his TV ratings up and uses people an "x" amount to do so...

Move somewhere else when possible and when begining... a yogi would not have to move since they could shut off shut input.

Has anyone here had negative results with acupuncture treatment? Or what do you have say of any dangers related to it?

Anybody know about cupping? As in how long should it be done, or how bad of red ring marks should it leave?

yet the compassion is in knowing the connection to that apparent other and reducing forms of pain/suffering. our true selves is the true self for there is no other. (edit)

... another thing I found out (and should have known earlier) is that MD's that have some kind of acupuncture degree (which could be dubious) will get medical coverage qualification from providers for their patient's much easier. Thus it sounds like another big money deal via the power of the U.S. medicine/hospital/insurance machine, whereas a highly qualified and state certified acupuncture practitioner will often not be qualified for their patients to get such coverage!