3bob

Yep, the right question is half the answer, or something like that...

if one did a little creative extrapolating with some of that reasoning could not karma be traced back to "God"? (or whatever term one prefers)

it relates in several ways with one being that certain people or Beings are responsible for the protection of such sites and that may mean violent battles, seen or unseen.

how about at a sampling of say 10,000 various temples (and or well recognized and respected holy sites)somewhere in India? (this area is more of a tangent to my original post but what the heck)

it could be a concept then again it could be a spiritual way or law, and the guardians or gatekeepers of spiritual ways or laws do not suffer any foolish acts towards same kindly...

Jeff, Maybe yes, maybe no; or in some cases yes and in some cases no. Further, I have no problem with self-defense to fullest measure needed, but lets face it that to can very quickly become a slippery slope for human beings.

"Yes the true you is realized by using your body as a tool, by turning inwards" d4rr3n Sounds like a formula towards solving the question in your first post, btw. what branches of Hinduism have you studied?

mind in its duality will always be a step from Spirit for only Spirit knows Spirit or only the *Self knows the Self. (*Self as used in the Upanishads)

D4rr3n, Ok on the quote you gave... but in your statement of: "where everything is destroyed, dissolved into the nothingness" (edit) does not apply to Brahman or the Self; your statement could also imply an end to the "cycles" since if all was gone into a blank, absolute nothingness then there would be no cycles forthcoming (or even starting in the first place) from such a blank or nul endpoint. There is Source and transformation (and truer meanings than destruction) and such transformation works both ways, as the Tao Teh Ching alludes to with words like, "goes far", "return" and also "standing still". Good fortune to you

D4rr3n, You may want to take another look at the Vedic teachings? For instance what you are referring to is normally called a day or night of "Brahma" or Lord Brahma. (as in a very long time period of the creative God aspect, along with there also being the aspects of Lord Vishnu, and Lord Shiva) "Brahmin" normally means a Brahmin priest or someone of the Brahmin caste. And "Brahman" is that which is beyond any such categories as is deeply alluded to in the Upanishads. (and elsewhere) An example: Chandogya Upanishad, Part Eight, Chapter I — Brahman in the Heart "1. Om. There is in this city of Brahman an abode, the small lotus of the heart; within it is a small akasa. Now what exists within that small akasa, that is to be sought after, that is what one should desire to understand. —3. If they should say to him: "Now, with regard to the abode, the small lotus, in this city of Brahman and the small akasa within it—what is there in it that is to be sought after and what is there that one should desire to understand?" Then he (the teacher) should say: "As far as, verily, this great akasa extends, so far extends the akasa within the heart. Both heaven and earth are contained within it, both fire and air, both sun and moon, both lightning and stars; and whatever belongs to him (i.e. the embodied creature) in this world and whatever does not, all that is contained within it (i.e. the akasa in the heart)." 4. If they (the pupils) should say: "If everything that exists—all beings and all desires—is contained in this city of Brahman, then what is left of it when old age overcomes it or when it perishes?" 5. Then he (the teacher) should say: "With the old age of the body, That (i.e. Brahman, described as the akasa in the heart) does not age; with the death of the body, That does not die. That Brahman and not the body is the real city of Brahman. In It all desires are contained. It is the Self—free from sin, free from old age, free from death, free from grief free from hunger, free from thirst; Its desires come true, Its thoughts come true. Just as, here on earth, people follow as they are commanded by a leader and depend upon whatever objects they desire, be it a country or a piece of land so also those who are ignorant of the Self depend upon other objects and experience the result of their good and evil deeds. 6. "And just as, here on earth, whatever is earned through work perishes, so does the next world, won by virtuous deeds, perish. Those who depart hence without having realized the Self and these true desires—for them there is no freedom in all the worlds. But those who depart hence after having realized the Self and these true desires—for them there is freedom in all the worlds." (underline added by me)

I'd add that the term "astral" is used in many ways by different schools. For instance astral is sometimes divided into lower, middle and upper, (so to speak) with the lower astral referring to the hell realms where light is twisted into darkness and the higher astral referring to refined realms of shinning light and goodness; also there are the terms of mental and causal realms (often described as being above the astral) which of course also include "light". Since many here have Buddhist leanings one might ask them where the transcendental and factual type (light) depictions of Buddha's standing or sitting on beautiful transparent lotus blossoms fit into such categories? (although such categories are nothing to get hung about imo)

Hello Jeff, I meant loss of attachment to any or all as required, yet that does not mean one should never pick up a tool (of the mind) and use it as needed but when finished then be able to put it down. For instance: imagine someone's hand always being attached to a chain saw and everything they touched or came in contact with had to be done through said chain saw being that they could not put it down... As for "illusion" where does it begin and end? (if not in perception) For instance and to paraphrase part of a saying from the Tao Teh Ching - should it be postulated or inferred that the Tao giving birth to "the One" and the One itself as being illusion?

I'd say done is the loss of particular and limited attachments to "mind", and in relation to that "illusion" is a highly abused term...

certain dualizing is fine by me: For instance dual exhaust is better than single but tuned exhaust headers are the best, thus a 2 1/2" exhaust pipe may not be better than one at 2".

It is a common for us to think of attaining this or that level or category ... and granted such does apply to levels, but beyond that Spirit essence is not something you can gain or loose, (or gain by attainment or loose by lack of attainment) That is already indestructible, non-corruptible, pure and true. What one can loose is identification with less than that, then all is well. (but that is also getting way ahead of the game which I'm not qualified to go on about)

Of course you will have to verify this (or answers to these questions) for yourself, having said that I feel that the term "no-thing" is the best pointer, whereas the term "nothing" (especially to westerners) has a polarized connotation. What exactly are the in-depth Taoist/Chinese translations and correlations I don't know. A human being per-se obviously has limits, even for the highly advanced. Yet when Spirit realizes it is not limited to being just a physical human being, or just an advanced human mind then Spirit will come know Itself or true Self beyond such human limitations. This website is plum full of arguments along these lines, one might ask oneself how many years they want to spend on arguments and speculation until they just get on with it, namely practice that works... Good fortune to you.

"White Light Meditations" link: http://www.himavanti.org/en/c/himavanti-1/white-light-spiritual-meditations-yoga-dhyana

there is an ocean of light, there is a Being of light that acts as a point or matrix in time and space for that light, then the Being returns to the ocean that they never really left. All of this is possible to SEE, but once inside the ocean or inside the light then such seeing is no more.

Via You tube:

further information on the great Ramayana! http://www.ask.com/wiki/Ramayana

See Devils Tower, Wyoming

"...If we are capable of understanding what Qi is and how Qi users are able to store this energy in their body, there might be a way to increase the speed of Qi cultivation, and help more people with the health benefits of Qi. On the other hand if I can understand what Yin and Yang are, and produce them with machines, there are possibilities for new medical equipment, and things such as levitation devices, and force fields..." by C.C. III If it could easily be used to heal (by most anyone) then its opposite would also apply... thus if put on the open (and electronic) market anything goes; not unlike unethical parties screwing around with DNA in secret labs for who knows what ends? God help us!

I'd say nothing they could not hear.

might have been wax, not sure

could you say that again...