3bob

another map: "Saiva Siddhanta believes that there is a chasm between Pure Consciousness of Siva on one hand and Maya, Purusa, Tattvas, and matter on the other hand. This chasm can be traversed by Sakti; there is no physical connection between Siva and matter; all apparent connections are through the intermediation of Sakti. Yes, He is Water, Air, Fire, Ether and Sky. Let me explain this apparent contradiction. Siva has three levels of perfection: Supreme Siva1, Parasakti2 and Parameshvara3. Parameshvara3 has connection with matter through Sakti. Supreme Siva1 is Atattva (Not THAT, not matter). (3bob's insert: or Neti, Neti) Atattva is NOT mutable, while Tattvas (matter) are mutable". (and ultimately "Jiva is Siva")

Now that's "funny" and you should know it... and even if one doesn't one should allow for considering that they don't.

it has many more meanings and also meanings that can not be strictly circumscribed.

Simple Jack, My fanatic remark was basically meant for 'alwayson' via his "illegitimate bastard son" comment in comparison to your more "right speech" type of tact.

One must also understand that "Buddhahood "is not limited to or just attained through Buddhism's various schools teachings. The meaning of the term is not just a Buddhist school or teacher meaning.

the fanatics are popping out of the woodwork now, funny but not really since missing the principles and meanings in preference for debatable historic reference's is telling.

Simple Jack, (btw, why the misnomer ?) "ironically", some could say, you've adopted a Buddhist view and practice which is not the only workable vehicle as some Buddhists tend to attach to and which must also be set down at the river bank.

Nagarjuna is a smart person but his reflections and insights along the lines of "four fold negation" only go so far and thus are in effect and to me his wise admission of those limits.

An aspect: I think there is nothing wrong with vehicles, in fact vehicles are needed to inter-act in all realms... problem is when one is enthralled with or only identified with a this or that vehicle. Anyway some shreds of ego/personality/vehicle are needed and used as tools to interact with various realms as a teacher or student in the public, less so if more private.

Songtsan, I hope you find what you are looking for. I haven't read every word in every post but it sounds like most of it is from teachings of Buddhism, although "Neti, Neti" is not. "Neti, Neti" to me means not this thing, not that thing - thus not a thing yet that is the deepest reality beyond all things which is very well pointed to in the Upanishads. (note: all things are connected to Shakti and Shakti is connected to Brahman) Om

Ah, um, om...

ok Songtsan ;-) I thought you might chew my ass somewhat for my additional intrusion in post 6 but you are a good sport.

Deci said, "Whenever I inspire you to write wonderful things…" Deci, "You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you Don't you? Don't You?" By Carly Simon

there is good reason for purification practices of body and mind because an influx of energies will tend to magnify whatever is happening with someone, (like a rocket into the sky or a rocket into the ground) thus better to clean up certain conditions before hand. (being that there are methods people have used that more or less try to force energies which includes by-passing self-leveling before proper preparations)

I'd say there are some catches to that Chris, since transmission form the divine can blow you up without some preparations of the so called lower mind.

Well wouldn't even that still be going around in circles of light thus not exactly going inside itself? (like still going around in circles on the Tibetan Wheel of Life) add in: Buddha nature does not run out of being Buddha nature within the Wheel of Life - thus the depictions of Buddha in all the realms, that same nature is not bound while It also stands transcendent outside of the inside of the wheel.... that's my take anyway.

Agreed that stuff is going on in brain and mind, but teachings of the "Self" or Brahman point to the realizable reality that we are not really brain or mind. Also light is normally thought of traveling here and there in space and time but what if it turned around and traveled back inside itself, what then of light, space and time?

"...But from a rational point of view, ultimate stillness sounds far fetched, as the whole universe is always moving from the largest nebula to the smallest particle of an atom. If one has the view that things have continuity in time. As above so below...if you are speaking metaphorically or in some twilight language, then that is fine. Even space moves. It expands and contracts with the amount of matter - in fact it is directly tied to matter - the one wouldn't exist without the other. I have studied too much physics to hold an entirely different belief yet. I aim to ultimately see how the laws of the universe (physical, mental, spiritual) coincide. I can see how one could have the view that there are no things, because each moment is a reality unto itself, and the idea of thing-ness is ultimately untrue - there is only this, then there is 'something else' new. In that case I accept that every 'thing' is still. So perhaps both are true based on stance" By Songtsan Is the soundlessness between notes struck on piano keys stillness? Is the soundlessness between thoughts churning in mind stillness? If so how fast does one have to slow down to catch up to stillness and remain so?

more ponderings on connections: T.T.C. chapter 43: "Only nothing can enter into no-space", I understand said process taking place through connections - and at the connections transformations take place. Thus The Tao is connected to the One through transformation although the Tao still remains on its side of the transformer. Also the One returns to the Tao through connection and transformation but then it is no more (in that particular cosmic cycle) or transformed to no-thing since the Tao is source. Using the same analogy but with different terms the "Absolute" is connected to the relative through transformation yet it always remains the Absolute. (or it never runs out of being the Absolute just as the Tao never runs out of being the Tao) I'd also add that the potentials (so to speak) in the saying, "Only nothing can enter into no-space" match up, or one might also use the term synchronize.

From Mr. G. "You know the prayer 'Holy God, Holy the Firm, Holy the Immortal'? This prayer comes from ancient knowledge. Holy God means the Absolute or All. Holy the Firm also means the Absolute or Nothing. Holy the Immortal signifies that which is between them, that is, the six notes of the ray of creation, with organic life. All three taken together make one. This is the coexistent and indivisible Trinity.

yes, not unlike algebra at times, except the final equation takes something outside of algebra for resolution. Some simple analogies to consider: one can not normally see or feel electromagnetic energy and for unknown tens of thousands of years most of mankind could not imagine such an invisible force... further and I believe a key to consider along the lines of "mystery" is connection, thus the connection of Tao to the One and the One to the Two, etc,, is a major mystery although if one starts much further-out (so to speak) connections are not as difficult to trace - for instance happenings of actions and reactions in the "ten thousand" and the physical world. Another example: all the Jhana's in Buddhism are connected and those are also connected to the "Beyond of the Beyond" which I would also call major mystery. "Trust no one", yet to make a leap of faith (when only methods and self fall short) a hand reaching out in trust is needed. Om

Songtsan, Post 124 sounds like a fine plan to me. ;-) The T.T.C. chapter I meant to bring up earlier is #25. (translation by John Wu, 4th line down) "Standing alone without change" By the way "Silent" is also mentioned in that chapter which I'd say infers stillness just as "without change" does. Apparently certain Buddhist teachings (or at least certain interpretations) do not concur along the lines of this Taoist teaching... anyway I'm not going to pick-over that endlessly picked-over and dubious debate here, I'm just pointing out the text. Later, Bob

mind itself is duality thus it can only split hairs, for example it can keep splitting hairs down to the sub of sub atomic particles (etc..) but that mind will never know rest beyond such splitting of hairs, which is fine when one has to deal with hair. but to get beyond hair one has to get to the root of it, - is that why old masters are sometimes bald - I don't know.

Ah, um, om, You are kinda blowing my mind to, lol I can't say much except maybe roll the whole bundle up and spice it with a strong dose of karma yoga then how could you go wrong, regardless?

I have some beach front property in Arizona for sale, its hot to. lol (when in the hell are you going to get over it Deci?)