3bob

Chi Dragon, Thanks for the alternate translation

Btw, the true, the free, the pure, (etc..) never has been, isn't, nor ever will be corrupted or sinful... thus not in need of redemption. The "relative" self or whatever you may want to call it is another story.

Zen speaks of "missing the mark" which I believe I read long ago in the book, "Zen in the Art of Archery".

I don't really mind your trip, (among the mind of countless trips) it's just an example for the sake of others of how people can go nuts. ... projecting or naming yourself as a teacher, that's creepy - please get the hell off it deci. Most people here are not looking for "teachers" especially me. Most just want to share some experiences, ask a few questions and maybe come across a tip or two without things devolving as various threads here sometimes do. Later, btw its ok to be a happy camper

Sounds like testy, judgmental, and off the wall presumptuous projections are a big part of your reality, so yes we won't see eye to eye along such lines. Btw, there is a reason or reality for why Buddhas of any stripe smile and are happy. (But apparently other matters and assorted put downs are often your chosen cup tea, why - don't ask me I don't know...)

there are also sayings like : (although not exactly related) "what you fear shall come upon you" "he who digs a ditch shall fall into it" "cast your bread upon the waters for after many days you shall find it again"

there is a cave where one finds all that exists and is happy and true. Discussion is only alluding to but the power in the well is more than just alluding to...

Be careful about not being rational regardless of west, east, south or north.

Hello Deci, I've read your posts a couple of times and appreciate the inspiration expressed along the lines of Mystery and or "selfless self" (which translates to me as egoless self, or the Self that is neither born nor dying, yet 100% alive now) In regards to the word "illusion": To me illusion is a term that bandied about a great deal and often in a dismissive manner. The problem I see with such usage (if you hear my meaning?) is that "Mystery" is connected (as stated or alluded to in Chapter 42 of the Tao Teh Ching) to what some of us often down grade as illusion, namely The One, The Two, The Three and the Ten Thousand, etc... I have seen the reality (although in flux) of these connections all the way to Mystery thus to me illusion is only in the eye of the beholder. Here is one place where I may agree with the Buddhist saying that is along the lines of "samsara seen correctly is Nirvana" and perhaps as you may have intended with your words of "there is no separate reality"? Further, the "transcendent" is free of being bound or limited by such connections yet at the same moment it is forever present in such connections. Is that along the lines of what you meant by working in the temporal? (or something like, "the ducks never flew away" in a related Zen saying, and neither has the Tao ever flown away from its children)

No need to post long samples of what you can read for yourself via the basic information or linkable information. Btw, if you have not read the book I recommend it over the little sample. No need to count tit for tat if Christains have sinned more times or more seriously than Muslims since both peoples at various times and places in history (recent and long ago) have gone a very long ways down such roads and only "God" is a true judge of such counting. No need to act like a nut-case either, I suggest acting at least like a rational man.

Freedom at Midnight (1975) is a book by Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre. (examples in that book, although not only by Muslims who by the way are not exempt from falling into lower human nature)

Right this is your thread; btw to me you have referred to a form of (which is apparently yours) "religion", aka a form of study and practice if you will, namely: "Mastering the sciences of essence and life is the consummation of the teaching of the southern and northern schools of Complete Reality of Chang Po-tuan and Wang Che from Ancestor Lü's lineage". And if that is all you really want to or mainly refer to in relation to or about "the beyond" that is here now then fine. (and I will look into same as a means for communication) Yes, the light goes far and also returns, and where it returns to can not really be said.

. . "10. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11. Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13. And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15. And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18. I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." . .

Washing dirty dishes is also "religion" but it doesn't need to be picked to death. (neither is the picking to death or denial of various religions productive. (something we may have or share common ground about?) Anyway I sometimes get the picking to death feeling from some forms of Buddhism and its related doctrines, although not with Zen sayings. When "one" is in the trenches it is difficult to see the mountain top (or freedom) but when one is on the mountaintop the trenches are often forgotten or even denied as existing yet such was a needed crucible and or forge to make ready the "vessel" for an instant enlightenment that was, is and always will be now. (something we may also have or share common ground about?) To me the term "causeless" has a sort of vague yet still round about polar connotation, instead I'd go with a di-polar type of term or the word di-polar itself. Some of your sentences or expressions are not easy for me to follow being that my formal education never was that great although I've made various studies on my own. (and there is always "the school of hard knocks" to learn from) Do you have some background in studies of the Upanishads? To me they directly allude to (about as well as possible) the True, the aware and the free Self. (that is also a quintessentially simple and pure Self that is not caught in any form of "mind" to any degree) Of course some will argue about such descriptions for eternity which is why I try to be careful about talking about religion yet I see the need for some verbalizing to keep an opening to knowledge alive. (so to speak, and long the lines it sounds like you are saying) Om forever flows in stillness, Om good night

I've had 3 of my 4 wisdom teeth pulled thus my time is running out to be a wise ass.... but I may have enough metal in my mouth via fillings, caps, and bridges that I will keep picking up and hearing radio talks shows in my head coming from the higher astral plane, thus helping to offset wisdom tooth loss - which is something many people must be doing?

Deci, Thanks for the feedback and your detailed explanation (or try) which I'll have to reflect on for awhile. The term "Soul of the soul" might come into play as an explanation that I might try in this process. I hear the shadings of Buddhist like meanings or terms in your text which I don't use very much, I use terms and meanings more from the Upanishads and Taoism. Thus we may not come to seeing certain topics or subjects eye to eye via said mediums- which is ok to me. "The One" can be named while what the "Tao" or "Mystery" alludes can not, the "no-thing" mentioned is another alluding to which I like. Is there any need for projecting out or being a "shrink" of 3bob in the first sentence of your last the paragraph, no not really, either in this or most any other format. (do you agree with what to me is my lesser form of shrinking?) Later, I gotta run now, Bob

Deci said, "there is no soul" if so then there is also no earth, no sun, multiverse, karma, dharma, mind, love, or true desire, etc. (all of which ime the eternal self is aware of and can act through)

since when did women like dating toothless guys? (or the other way around)

The lack of teeth could be a problem if you met someone in a short dress or bikini...

CT, That sounds like excellent tooth karma... will have to browse the net to see if there is any garlic connection. You know radio waves get weaker but I'm not sure when they die? Thus early radio waves (and TV) like from Earth in the 1930's are still traveling somewhere out-there only to be picked up by our "alien" brothers teeth. (for instance the famous Orson Wells broadcast about them)

Brian, Sorry I'm not sure who that man is? (could he have been in the play "Hair")

Well hell, since the 60's I thought we all lived in a yellow submarine in a sea of green....

I've always had trouble with the word impersonal but not impartial, since as long as there is still soul there is still being at some level. As for details I'll borrow your saying, "But don't ask me. I don't know".

Since we are now on no-name terms or the omission of names (as you are now proceeding then such is no big deal to me although you made a dubious big deal of names early on so now I hear you as being self-contradictory along that line) I don't spit unless I'm choking or being choked. As for you seeing evidence of spit that is in the eye of the beholder, yourself; all I've done is pointed out quotable words or sentences from you and also commented on the long, dark and violent aspects of past and present day Islam and or alluded to certain Muslim people who use Islam for corrupted purposes. (which does not mean all Islam or all Muslim people are corrupted in that way) If you can't accept such as historical fact as has often been recorded with eyes wide open 1st hand accounts by both Muslims and non-Muslims then that is your problem...

Mr. Isimsiz Biri Islam in some ways like Christianity has lots of twisted up skeletons in its closet which you can not deny in any way, shape or form if you are at all rational. (or even border line rational) Btw, I'm the op here so you can go somewhere else such as to a website that panders to fanatics or violent types who spout off and act like they are "holier than thou". Btw #2, my name here is 3bob since it appears you are having trouble following your own advice or standards.