3bob

ok, btw I'd say accepting or discarding can also backfire at times which is why I put some things on the shelf for awhile for later consideration.

one can not ascribe to or honestly espouse Buddhist and Vedic summations at the same time, thus follow or pick one or the other ...although appreciation can be given for both.

Hi Steve, I've heard similar pointers like what you are saying before, and maybe it is just a far different usage of the term "mind" than how it is used in Vedic teachings that point beyond mind.... anyway it also sounds contradictory to me in descriptive meaning to say that the nature of mind is different from the mind. Btw. here is the Buddhist saying (from Udana VIII.3).that we hear variations of and which sound like what you are getting at: "There is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, and therefore there is an escape from the born, created, formed, originated. If it were not for the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there would be no escape from the born, created, formed, originated, but because there is the unborn, uncreated, unformed, unoriginated, there is an escape, there is liberation from the born, created, formed, originated."

DNA tests for trump were found to be a distraction from the bigger picture, what was found to be far more telling was a hypnotic like blindness and a deafness by many to what trump's nature truly is!! Further, if one insists on keeping such blindness and deafness (along with being bought off with temporary and small gains to their pocket books) by the acts and words of a dangerous and destructive madman then they shall be left holding the bag, reaping the bitter and diseased results of trumps colossal scam. Truth and goodness do not come forth from lies and malice, no matter how devious and misdirecting the attempts are by trump and his likes.

trump was...

try algebra....

please don't mind my interjection but the Historic Buddha also made a description as being the, "Wonder of wonders..." thus superceding Hamlet's line of speculation: "To be, or not to be, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep, No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:

even a lie is the truth and vice is virtue to one if they believe so.

could be... and I took the ocean analogy to imply much more than just the physical universe which is very small. (and ideas about the speed of light which is very slow)

for there to be an ever expanding ocean (as you say) it has to have measurable size for such an expansion to proceed. The Self has no measurable size such as big, small, or expanding from an existing point A to a new point B. also when the Self (or water in the analogy) realizes its nature (which is an idea kind of that blows the mind) it also realizes the nature of a so called ocean which is the same. Thus I would change the previously submitted analogy to something like, when the drop of water is identified as something other than water that is pretty much what it thinks it is. (even though it really is water)

Text from the Chandogya Upanishad, with insight on desire: Om. There is in this city of Brahman an abode, the small lotus of the heart; within it is a small akasa. Now what exists within that small akasa, that is to be sought after, that is what one should desire to understand. 2-3 If they should say to him: "Now, with regard to the abode, the small lotus, in this city of Brahman and the small akasa within it-what is there in it that is to be sought after and what is there that one should desire to understand?" Then he (the teacher) should say: "As far as, verily, this great akasa extends, so far extends the akasa within the heart. Both heaven and earth are contained within it, both fire and air, both sun and moon, both lightning and stars; and whatever belongs to him (i.e. the embodied creature) in this world and whatever does not, all that is contained within it (i.e. the akasa in the heart)." 4 If they (the pupils) should say: "If everything that exists-all beings and all desires-is contained in this city of Brahman, then what is left of it when old age overcomes it or when it perishes?" 5 Then he (the teacher) should say: "With the old age of the body, That (i.e. Brahman, described as the akasa in the heart) does not age; with the death of the body, That does not die. That Brahman and not the body is the real city of Brahman. In It all desires are contained. It is the Self-free from sin, free from old age, free from death, free from grief free from hunger, free from thirst; Its desires come true, Its thoughts come true. Just as, here on earth, people follow as they are commanded by a leader and depend upon whatever objects they desire, be it a country or a piece of land so also those who are ignorant of the Self depend upon other objects and experience the result of their good and evil deeds. 6 "And just as, here on earth, whatever is earned through work perishes, so does the next world, won by virtuous deeds, perish. Those who depart hence without having realized the Self and these true desires-for them there is no freedom in all the worlds. But those who depart hence after having realized the Self and these true desires-for them there is freedom in all the worlds.

there are positive and negative areas of the mind system, thus if flowing energy to or through a negative area that area becomes active because of the energy going there, so remove the energy going there and poof, no more negative thought so to speak.

a drop of water doesn't dissolve or evaporate when it is in the ocean which it never really left.

there are major differences between what the founders of various religions espouse compared to that of Hinduism! For instance: : "Hinduism: One Truth - Many Paths Hinduism is the oldest and most misunderstood religion. It is older than the Western religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam and the Eastern religions of Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, which are its offspring. Hinduism originated in India and has slightly more than a billion adherents throughout the world. Hinduism is unique, because unlike the other major religions, it has no single founder, no single scripture, no single deity, no single prophet, no strict priesthood, and no single way to reach salvation. Because Hinduism has numerous sages as spokespersons, scores of religious books for open discussion and various paths available for enlightenment, it is liberal, tolerant of differences, accepting of other faiths, inclusive and secular in orientation. What gives unity to Hinduism is the belief that it is based upon eternal principles, which are explicitly stated in the Hindu sacred texts of the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad-Gita and the Yoga Sutra. The quintessence of Hinduism is affirmed in the ancient text of the Rig Veda as follows: "There is one reality, the wise call it by many names; there is one truth, reached by many paths." This statement becomes the starting point of Hinduism and the Hindu way of life." So I'd say if the founders of other and various religions nix or negate this highlighted text per their doctrine then most discussions are reduced to un-resolvable and irreconcilable exercises along such lines...a line which should be a general and basic starting point, alas such is not so leaving the definition of "grown up" in question or least needing a lot more context and content.

ah, but all of that is taken on to overcome by that which is touched by none,

"to go far" and "return" and also "standing still" - are basic and core tenets of Taoism, to toss any of them out means one is not recognizing the basic and core meanings and tenets of Taoism. as for desire, all desires are but various (10,000) echos of the one true desire which is directly alluded to in Taoism in Chap 21: IT lies in the nature of Grand Virtue To follow the Tao and the Tao alone. Now what is the Tao? It is Something elusive and evasive. Evasive and elusive! And yet It contains within Itself a Form. Elusive and evasive! And yet It contains within Itself a Substance. Shadowy and dim! And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality. The Core of Vitality is very real, It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity. Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved In order to recall the Beginning of all things. How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning? By what is within me.

a note about certain differences: for those of us who have not walked the Buddhist path there is only surface stuff that we can know about it, and for those of us that have not walked the Vedic path there is also only surface stuff we can know about it, thus while we are walking whatever path there is nothing to be gained by stopping where we are to start chucking assumptions or boulders over to other paths - that is if we are to move ahead on ours. Granted if assumptions or boulders are flying either way then either party has the right to defend itself with corrections and expressions about itself.

if the sun shines is there light?

"May all beings be happy" is a very fine saying with nothing in it to reject.

not so per the revealed teachings of the Self realized, and to paraphrase such the Self does not fit into categories of aggregates (with aggregates being a Buddhist doctrine as I assume you are well aware of) or a thing, also one can not know Self by any mental means including the most advanced ones, for only the Self knows the Self...

the key word Steve used above is "things"...and with the Self/Atman not being a thing it does not fall under the explanations or interpretrtations of Buddhist doctrine. Thus no need to keep going there in debate after thousands of years of passing debates on the matter. (if one relates to and studies the Upanishads and Vedic teachings)

I'd say concepts can not hold it although they may point to it, which is their purpose. It can be understood since it is innate, while abstractions about it are like looking at a map but never traveling to and seeing first hand what the map is trying to help with in its always limited way.

hmm, "what is human with in us" sounds ok...but what may sound strange is that what is within us is not human per-se but Spirit, thus the human vehicle is a great and wonderful thing but it is still a vehicle.

the sequences of such may be in question but..."Is it Better to Have Loved and Lost Than Never to Have Loved at All ..."

"Behold I make all things new" Revelation 21.5