3bob

The One can be named, and is the first born of the Tao, it to returns...

Unchanging, unwavering will is joined to unchanging, unwavering Truth, without that all would be in vain and suffering would never end. That Truth is the true "I" and It suffers no such vanity, nor can any mind ever corrupt it for it is not limited to or of the mind.

Wonderful quote Dude!

Well one can be presented with multiple choices after which the will can arise or withdraw concerning actions related to same. Further, if one has developed will power in general or in particular ways then that same will should also be able to be re-directed or transferred for use in a new or different tasks. (with some adjustments)

Hey man, Alan Watts has some good stuff on explaining/comparing east-west concepts. But remember this is mostly concepts being shared here and one can't really live off of such. In meantime you can trust nature not to lie to you, she is fair, true and palys no favorites. By the way, a lot of this kind of stuff has to be put on the shelf and or taken with a grain of salt until you can relate to it through your own experience, and if you don't have such related experiences just keep on trying to do the kind and well-rounded balanced things in life and the same will come upon you. Also trying to correlate all these different ways can easily drive you or anyone else nuts, so don't overload your head with same! Good luck.

"And familiarity cloaks the miraculous. Nothing more miraculous to me than waking up every morning and having the ability to see, smell, feel, pee, walk, enjoy food, enjoy the relationship of a loved one .... (not necessarily in that order)" Steve "(not necessarily in that order)" since the prostate gland can cause problems for us older guys

I work around electricity all the time, (turbine/ generators) so I'm sure I've gotten major doses of emf over the years. I also remember the early computer monitors that were really bad about emf along with them causing lots of eye strain! (via poor refresh rates) So what does anyone know about the effects of getting an MRI exposure? (or x-rays and cat-scans if you want to get into that?) p.s. it doesn't seem like d.c. equipment would generate much of an electromagnetic field in comparison to all the a.c. equipment in the world...

No biggy Rene, and such (along with some other major points) might make for a good topic in another string in this sub-forum.

Main line Christianity does not support non-dualism, since one remains a separate creation/soul. As far as what semi-secret or secret "esoteric" Christianity supports who knows? (or has the need to know until they have the need to know?)

Thanks to all the folks who gave a vote of confidence for my involvement here, that was cool, I'll check in now and then. Bob

I have somewhat of a thick hide and skull so mixing things up no longer causes me much of a conceptual abrasion, but I know it once did and can do the same with others depending on where they are at (?)... Anyway with many of the members here having mixes of concepts, practices, traditions, etc. I don't see how Apech can keep things all nice and pure conceptually but good luck in trying to do so. (thus I'm more or less checking out of this string) Btw, here is one small example quoted from Jeff: "My perspective is a little different. Depending on the context, I think it means both the "enlightenment" of the individual, but also, more interesting for our discussion, the coming of a second Christ ( or Maitreya Buddha). Evolution (or the Holy Spirit) marches on, or as Jesus says "greater works are coming"... I also did a little mixing in one of my posts when mentioning the "Wheel".

Jeff, The information you gave in #38 partly addresses or answers my previous post, but I would not make the distinction about advanced souls as you did since creation is for all souls at any and all levels. p.s. I see the throwing of Buddhism (of any school) into the "Christian" mix as being highly problematic, to say the least. Btw, some forms of Hinduism have some similar aspects to some forms of Buddhism but the two are still 180 degrees apart when it comes to certain principles and to mix them up even when there is some cultural common ground often brings grief and confusion.

Hello Jeff, I'm not familiar with the text you quoted or its related context - namely, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being"; ...but it doesn't make sense as stated being that "heaven and earth" coming into being is obviously about and involves myriads more than just one soul even a very great soul! Also Jesus does talk about or say something sending the Holy Ghost/comforter, although I haven't read much from the Bible in a long time.

it's interesting that there are many interested in this subject at this site... Here is another point to consider among others: Jesus did not name a successor as happens in many other traditions, although he did choose key helpers and representatives to carry on the work. (in His name) The Golden Jesus I've met has complete freedom and power within the wheel... as for further who knows?

"nature" has what could be called a great many scales or laws... Thus the scale and law of "the One" is different from the scale and law of "the Two", "the Three" and so forth on to the scale and laws of the "ten thousand", further what can happen or is lawful and real say under the scale and law of "the three" is not the same as what can happen or is lawful and real under scale and law of the "ten thousand". Another analogy: what works or lawfully applies to a single dimensional framework does not apply to what works or lawfully applies in a 3 dimensional framework... I hope that helps logically explain how what may seem mystical is really just the working of various laws in their related dimensions. (dimensions which are not limited to just the physical realm!) Btw, the deeper or more foundational laws do not break the more convoluted iterations of laws in creation but they do have the lawful power to supersede them in certain cases since they are closer to the root. (if or when needed per deeper wisdom) Also "nature" could be said to flow in two ways, out from the root and also in returning to it... and those two ways have two different flows. Thus the saying, "go with the flow" needs certain qualifications.

Mh, It saddens me not to know certain things, Btw, knowing certain things did not sadden the author of the Tao Teh Ching: "...It is said that he who knows well how to live meets no tigers or wild buffaloes on his road, and comes out from the battle-ground untouched by the weapons of war. For, in him, a buffalo would find no butt for his horns, a tiger nothing to lay his claws upon, and a weapon of war no place to admit its point. How is this? Because there is no room for Death in him". From Chapter 50 Explain away the last line above if you prefer but such can not be done without leaving a core teaching given by Lao Tzu. (or as found in the TTC)

Rene, you might try checking more of the check boxes within the "delete browsing history on exit" tab under IE tools/internet options, such has worked for me when a log off doesn't take.

MH, In one way you are right since one does not exactly become immortal because the quintessential Self already is and has always been so, (although veiled over) thus the most real life is when that veil is removed! TTC 16 ...To be one with the Tao is to abide forever. Such a one will be safe and whole Even after the dissolution of his body.

I'd say there is nothing wrong with the material state(s) since they are needed for evolution, and one of those materials includes pure woven light. Another wonderful thing about form to me is that it is the divine matrix that Spirit works with and through; thus no mother then no one to awaken and grow up and become a spiritual adult working in the worlds.

"...My guess is our particular illusion started with the big bang and all of the suns are part and parcel of each other..." Manitou The Big bang is one way to put it, I like the saying of a Big Om! For me the term "illusion" is problematic and or has negative connotations in the way that is it often bandied about, I say that because I don't see a disconnect point of illusion existing anywhere in the whole kit-and-caboodle. For instance the invisible is connected to the visible, undifferentiated light is connected to differentiated light, form is connected to formlessness, silence is connected to a deafening roar, if one has some experience working with electricity one knows that an AC transformer has no wires connected between its primary and secondary sides yet there is a connection made across same via a transforming electro-magnetic field that transfers energy to the secondary side. I think this electric transformer image could be used as an analogy for the connection between the "Mystery" and the "mysteries" (and so forth)... one thing for sure, I don't ever want to get stuck at the crossroads of a "no-mans" land between same.

Does that mean the ducks never flew away?

Hello Manitou, You make so many considerate, interesting and loving observations.... Another rhetorical like take on time: If time (and related space) is a connected and multi-dimensional extension (so to speak) of timelessness then at what point does it become real illusion?

TI, My recent quote from the Chandogya Upanishad is very, very partial, I suggest you read most of or the entire text for better context. I will say that my take on "obtaining all worlds" means freedom in all worlds, and that fulfilling "all desires" means and can only be done through fulfilling the one true desire - namely attaining said freedom (along with working with its sister aspects). From a certain Buddhist perspective, which I'm reluctant to assume, one might say "Buddha nature" (and not just or only a particular Buddha) is free in all the 'worlds' as depicted on the Tibetan Wheel of life, yet also free beyond just that wheel. Also when the one true desire (hidden so to speak within countless other and binding like desires) is fulfilled then everything is seen in its "Rightful" place or way and peace prevails. Om p.s. the "golden" one is free.

Manitou, Something from the Chandogya Upanishad that may be of parallel interest to you: "4. "When the person in the eye resides in the body, he resides where the organ of sight has entered into the akasa (i.e. the pupil of the eye); the eye is the instrument of seeing. He who is aware of the thought: ‘Let me smell this,’ he is the Self; the nose is the instrument of smelling. He who is aware of the thought: ‘Let me speak,’ he is the Self; the tongue is the instrument of speaking. He who is aware of the thought: ‘Let me hear,’ he is the Self; the ear is the instrument of hearing. 5. "He who is aware of the thought: ‘Let me think this,’ he is the Self; the mind is his divine eye. He, the Self sees all these desires in the World of Brahman through the divine eye, the mind and rejoices. 6. "The gods meditate on that Self. Therefore all worlds belong to them and all desires. He who knows that Self and understands It obtains all worlds and all desires." Thus said Prajapati, yea, thus said Prajapati."

Aloha