3bob

I'd say that decay and ceasing to be over time applies to forms, not to Tao, (although certain forms can be maintained and or regenerated for very long periods using methods of Taoism) otherwise all is similar to the saying of, "vanity of vanities" and or meaningless as Apech also stated.

Ladies, I agree that the Tao doesn't play favorites but I don't think it should be implied that the Tao is indifferent while being impartial with words along the lines of the Tao doesn't care. for instance chapter 51 of the TTC: 51. TAO gives them life, Virtue nurses them, Matter shapes them, Environment perfects them. Therefore all things without exception worship Tao and do homage to Virtue. They have not been commanded to worship Tao and do homage to Virtue, But they always do so spontaneously. It is Tao that gives them life: It is Virtue that nurses them, grows them, fosters them, shelters them, comforts them, nourishes them, and covers them under her wings. To give life but to claim nothing, To do your work but to set no store by it, To be a leader, not a butcher, This is called hidden Virtue. also from the end of chapter 30 there is the warning of: "...For to be over-developed is to hasten decay, And this is against Tao, And what is against Tao will soon cease to be." thus saying to me that in the end result the Tao is not impartial to that which is against it.

Manitou, said: "After all, the Tao considers us all as straw dogs, and I don't think it cares one way or the other who dies when or where". Rene said: "You are right, it does not, and to me that is the greatest gift of all." 3bob said: Could you gals qualify (and contextualize) your thoughts above? (thanks)

"I would go even further than to include all sentient beings. the earth, for example. Is it not an act of love to pick up a piece of trash on the street and walk over to the dumpster, to honor the Mother?... " Manitou My take: She (the Earth soul) is one of the most sentient, true and beautiful beings there is (along with her helper souls), just of a far different order or scale of being compared to us humans -her little guests/children.

then you agree that you should be banned for carrying on in the way described, ok

As far as I'm concerned those that make a twisted and cruel minded habit of insulting and harming people at TTB should be banned - simple as that. (regardless of using quotes from this or that sect or no sect)

My take: there is no illusion except that possible in or with limited or mistaken perception, So those heavy on the subject please consider lightening the hell up on it, for there is no real illusion.

Righto Roger, well said about the dance!

I think the need to know or a need to know has a definite place in a lot of what is posted at this site... So I'm asking people in general what they think about the various types of information and or methods submitted here that can result in overload that is not yet needed to be known by "us" and can cause various kinds of trouble for us? What is your opinion of and general pointers to mitigate or prevent such overloads or mis-loads?

MH, I see your description as being problematic in that one might then ask where does illusion begin and where does it end, along with such answers not being the same for all? For instance if one knows themselves as or has done shaman type journeys then I believe what is real and what is a dream is open or should be open to different understandings or interpretations as to what level of reality is effecting another level. (another example: nothing happens in the physical world without happening first in an energy world that drives it)

Hi Rene, Yes, I said, "non-duality is big enough for duality". (or something very close to that)

I'd further add that there is not a disconnect from or between "ultimate" and "relative" reality, for any such disconnect can only be apparent or appear so via limits to perception, and not really be real.

CT, I thought your post was well stated and had some key points towards answering the op's comment/question! (with the "2-edged sword" comment and others being very descriptive) From a Buddhist framework one might mention the jhanas along these lines, for instance one being directed to work on say the 1st & 2nd jhanas does not need to speculate or hear a great deal about the 7 or 8 jhanas. (would you agree?) But as we all know this website and its sub-forums are often rife with speculation about the most advanced states and teachings of various systems which then end up being argued about... I myself have done this to some degree although I always try to keep things in very general terms knowing I'm vastly unqualified to say more, while also having some idea and feel of step by step stages and my need to know same step by step. (since even if I knew this or that yet didn't have the state of being to match then such can or will cause trouble)

I 2nd that

Manitou, A fine post and I think the part about "drive by shootings", (postings) is a good analogy

I (and maybe some others out there?) get a wet eye when the Righteous Brothers sing "Unchained Melody".

when one experiences Reality they are that Reality. (with a big R)

I don't feel bad either because dualism of comparative mind and or the greatest science will never be able to pin down non-dualism that is beyond the scope of comparative mind.

talking and comparing is only alluding to or pointing to at best along these lines, but one has to start somehow... Imagine that which is inherent (thus more than just a potential) yet It is not a coming or going, rising or falling thing, for it sees all things for what they are, a this or that type of form ranging in scale from the micro to cosmic! (which includes mental forms as also being things) That which is indestructibly inherent is also free in and through all dualistic forms.

fantasy sex and F#$%^*! can be found on other websites, or I can leave if the majority here likes or has no problem with that form of crudeness.

I've noticed that 99% of all the gals here share decent posts, but I can't say the same for a lot of the dumb-ass, or messed up guys. (you know who are) as for many of the other guys - you are cool - no problemo.

No, one wakes up to the eternal when death dies, an eternal "Self" that is not a temporary or changing construct. Thus the saying, "fear not" and thousands of others. (although any clever rat construct does die)

and that one is directly synchronized to that which is moving so fast that it is standing still remembering only now, right now.

Interesting post Jeff, thanks... ...but oh hell I can't remember! a trace formed in time is not the timeless yet how is time to trace its return to timelessness?