3bob

the ego does not understand the turning of the other cheek when done for real... but the eye of truth demonstrates it to the eye of truth that sees it.

Alright, nice one! The part about faith... most everyone has some form of faith to some degree, for instance those that only have faith in the ways of the world.

from humble one up to the 10th degree.

the deeply humble deeply understand karma and their non-violent actions/reactions can mitigate it, even to the point of helping transmute karmas for another.

Hi Steve, If you know some of those things about Mr. K. then I would tend to assume you also know of his earlier life and how he practiced various meditation methods and also to whatever degree was around or involved with so called "rituals" leading up to the period of his mystical vision(s) and related kundalini experiences, further these events in his life where never cast out by him as being false or of his imagination, something which he often pinned on others who had experiences in the same vein. For instance: "In 1922 he experienced a vision which would redirect the course of his life. It happened high in a mountain valley northwest of Los Angeles, named by the Native Americans "Ojai" or "The Nest." For two weeks, he had meditated constantly, envisioning the image of the Lord Maitreya before him. He then began to experience extreme pain in his neck and spine, and long periods of delirium. Day and night he struggled, unable to sleep or eat, often leaving his body, often seeing visionary happenings. On the third evening he was drawn from his small cottage to sit beneath a pepper tree alive with the fragrance of spring blossoms. What followed next was recorded in his own words: "When I had sat thus for some time, I felt myself going out of my body, I saw myself sitting down with the delicate tender leaves of the tree over me. I was facing the east. In front of me was my body and over my head I saw the Star, bright and clear. Then I could feel the vibrations of the Lord Buddha; I beheld Lord Maitreya and Master KH. I was so happy, calm and at peace. I could still see my body and I was hovering near it. There was such profound calmness both in the air and within myself, the calmness of the bottom of a deep unfathomable lake.... The Presence of the mighty Beings was with me for some time and then They were gone. I was supremely happy, for I had seen. Nothing could ever be the same. I have drunk at the clear and pure waters at the source of the fountain of life and my thirst was appeased.... I have touched compassion which heals all sorrow and suffering; it is not for myself, but for the world. I have stood on the mountain top and gazed at the mighty Beings.... Love in all its glory has intoxicated my heart; my heart can never be closed. I have drunk at the fountain of Joy and eternal Beauty. I am God-intoxicated." To Leadbeater he wrote: "I feel once again in touch with Lord Maitreya and the Master and there is nothing else for me to do but to serve Them. My whole life, now, is ... devoted to the work and I am not likely to change." And to Besant: "I feel as though I am sitting on a mountain top in adoration and that Lord Maitreya is close to me. I feel as though I am walking on delicate and perfumed air. The horizon of my life is clear and the sky-line is beautiful and precise." "The process" Another occurrence, connected with his spiritual change, was the phenomenon he always described as "the process". It had begun in the three painful days before his vision and would recur, in varying intensity, throughout his life. Extreme pain and out-of-body experiences would accompany its advent. In its early manifestation, K would sense a definite presence, like the Lord Maitreya who came one evening with this message: "Learn to serve me, for along that path alone will you find me. Forget yourself, for then only am I to be found. Do not look for the Great Ones when they may be very near you. You are like the blind man who seeks sunshine. You are like the hungry man who is offered food and will not eat. The happiness you seek is not far off; it lies in every common stone. I am there if you will only see. I am the Helper if you will let Me help." From this time in his life, all who knew him could sense his gathering power. From this point, he spoke from the heart, he spoke without fear, he seemed to speak from Truth itself. The "overshadowing" At a Star gathering in 1925 he began to speak of the World Teacher, saying: "He comes only to those who want, who desire, who long ..." As his listeners watched, his face suddenly brightened. His voice, now speaking in the first person, rang out with resonant power: "... and I come for those who want sympathy, who want happiness, who are longing to be released, who are longing to find happiness in all things. I come to reform and not to tear down, I come not to destroy but to build." Most who saw the speech assumed the Lord Maitreya had fully entered the consciousness of K, and at this point K seemed to as well: "The memory of the 28th (the day of the gathering) should be to you as if you were guarding some precious jewel and every time you look at it you must feel a thrill. Then when He comes again, and I am sure that He will come again very soon, it will be for us a nobler and far more beautiful occasion than even last time. I feel like a crystal vase, a jar that has been cleaned and now anybody in the world can put a beautiful flower in it and that flower shall live in the vase and never die." Theosophical reaction Wide publicity was given to his assumed overshadowing. This, unfortunately, only served to exaggerate the existing imbalances in the Society. Some Theosophists were vying for position in the coming World Order, claiming impossible access to the highest levels of the spiritual world. Competition increased -- one disciple even claimed to have advanced three levels of initiation in three days. Public announcements were issued about the selection of 10 of the 12 "apostles" for the coming work. All of them were Theosophists. Sometimes amused and sometimes disheartened, K observed the tumult surrounding him. In speech after speech he tried to show his fellows a truer path -- a way of inward direction that refused to follow anything but the spark of God within the soul. Over time he began to downplay a personal relationship with the spiritual kingdom. Less and less did he speak of Maitreya or the Masters or any other entity. His expression became increasingly abstract, as though seeking to reach beyond the realm of the physical to touch the essential source of Being that animates all expression. "When I was a small boy I used to see Sri Krishna, with the flute, as he is pictured by the Hindus, because my mother was a devotee of Sri Krishna.... When I grew older and met with Bishop Leadbeater and the Theosophical Society, I began to see the Master KH -- again in the form which was put before me ... -- and hence the Master KH was to me the end. Later on, as I grew, I began to see the Lord Maitreya.... Now lately, it has been the Buddha whom I have been seeing, and it has been my delight and my glory to be with Him".

Yea Steve, I to appreciate some of the gems generated by Mr. K. but I will call it on him every time he discounts or trashes another system in off-handed ways which was an unfortunate habit of his.

Rene, I did not imply (or mean to) that a master of "unified and knowing intention" is to be equated with an idealistically misled "do-gooder" that may or does bring about opposite results beyond their abilities or insight. For instance in the TTC we have chapter 49 that speaks of actions that could only be fully carried out by someone of unified and knowing intention. (or with the wisdom and state of being to do so) 49. THE Sage has no interests of his own, But takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; He is also kind to the unkind: For Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; He is also faithful to the unfaithful: For Virtue is faithful. In the midst of the world, the Sage is shy and self-effacing. For the sake of the world he keeps his heart in its nebulous state. All the people strain their ears and eyes: The Sage only smiles like an amused infant.

Rene, Your analogy doesn't hold water for me in the sense that any real "Master" is full of unified and knowing intention, thus any unintended actions by those of a less than master state of being that turn out to be of benefit are more or less random, and can not be counted on or maintained.

religion/methods/practices generated from and maintained by enlightened spiritual truth is a blessing, if he couldn't see that then he was blind. (while proclaiming such blindness as vision as he practiced his particular methods)

I have some beachfront dharma in Arizona for anyone that wants to buy into it... (come all ye yawners and scratchers)

Showing many peoples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSLcEZG0rD0

bump

Well dude with a mix of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism expect your mind to be blown in multiple ways; it is difficult enough to practice and understand one school within one of these three, (and there are several major "schools" and many sub-schools also within each) but trying to correlate all three ways into a general and mostly intellectual summation like in your original post is bound to be unsatisfactory! One can look for truths as echoed in and through-out nature, for nature does not lie or play favorites while having wondrous order and beauty! "Individual consciousness" as in an individual mind is a part of the whole story but not all of it, yet it has its place and importance - kind of like a raft has for crossing a river. The words: empty, enlightenment, Self, self, samsara, mind, consciousness, etc.. all have definition hurdles and you can spend most of your life playing the game of `my definition and understanding is better than yours' as related to the major religions or ways! Considering that I'd say that without working on our everyday state of being along with a healthy and wholesome way of living as human beings (as we understand such to be), that words such as these from eastern religions will be at least problematic or cause us lots of confusion even though most of them were not meant to do so when they were first spoken by a Being who lived and manifested the knowledge and virtues related to same. (thus books and words about same are not the whole story so I suggest one keep searching) Om

There is the saying, "somebody up there was looking out for me"... I can say that I've felt that way many a time and more so when things could have gone very bad! (for instance last week when I could have been crippled or killed in an ATV accident) Have you had this feeling and events in your life that took place in relation to this saying and that were more or less unexplainable yet also undeniable?

Chris, I can relate to your experience of intervention when in need, first for healing and second for protection. They or such Beings could be called astral doctors and or surgeons in the first case and spiritual warriors of truth in the second. Om

Mind directed by singular Spirit is strong, for its master has no doubts! The "still, small voice" of truth reaches through all layers of mind arising as an irresistible roar of undefeatable unity in forces.

You might be hearing some instances the of ida or pingala nadi flow... if the pitch is very very high and around the upper inside and center of your head it may be the sushumna current which takes place when ida and pingala balance out. (I've heard such on and off depending on my state of being for around 40 years, an advanced yogi might be able to determine such for you, note: these are not things to mess around without expert guidance) Tinnitus is also a possibility.

A fine quote Cat, Imagine the soul of the Earth that loves us even after all the harm we have done her!

Rhetorical like question: If "the One" is One what is yet to be finished or created to add to the One. (or totality of mind if you will) If you agree with that drift then mind is ultimately finished and creation is only apparent or relative since whatever particular form or slice of creation an individual mind is paying attention to already exists somewhere in the big or totality of mind, its just that the individual mind seems to be coming upon it for the first time. For instance (although not the best analogy) San Francisco already exists to those living there (and also to the totality of mind) but to an individual traveler headed there it doesn't seemingly exist until arrival of their individual mind and perception.

JTL, sounds reasonable but it's not that complicated to me in fact it is so simple that it can not be conceptualized! Some ponderings: A matrix for or aspects of the Self is not the Self per-se although a veiling by mind makes it seem so or reasonable. "The One" is born of the Tao which powers it, yet the Tao always remains and is complete without the need for another individual to mirror back its meaning to it.

TJL, Thank you for the feedback. My take: Mind is a medium as you say but limited to time(s), space(s) and the things that are part and parcel to same. (and which could be said to be relatively real within the parameters of such) Further, the stilling of time(s) space(s) and related things is a mastery of and also a compassionate detachment from same yet if to some degree a particular individuality-identification-relationship is still in force at that point then same is not enough to fully inform or free, even if such was on a cosmic or god like scale... ...for only that which truly IS can fully inform itself as that which truly IS, thus going beyond eternal cycles and iteration's of itself as we/us/life/mind that all take place now.

TJL, I use the terms in the following way: "That which IS" experiences itself free of any form of mind identification thus knowing a happiness that is not of mind or in any way dependent upon the mind where the powers of sorrow and or death can reach. Om

Does anyone see the title of this thread as being oxymoronic? I don't follow the latter part of your last post TJ, My take:" "actual self" is not of mind, a mind, or the mind, even the purest of such.

non-duality is big enough to contain duality, so to speak.

freedom from all forms of attachment, yet also free to enjoy all forms. (for in that light such is not the samsara boogie man)