3bob

liberation from rebirth still leaves a god-awful amount of stuff to do from what I've heard....

true but who knows...and who could keep tabs?

when things do not satisfy that which is not satisfied is still looking for satisfaction in whatever way...and when a non-perishable, ever-lasting satisfaction is attained then looking for it is no longer in force.

more on Rishis from David Frawley quote: https://www.vedanet.com/the-rishi-as-the-vedic-model-of-leadership/

a long and in depth read.... https://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=5286

excerpt from wiki pedia "Shaiva Siddhanta today[edit] Shaiva Siddhanta today is practiced widely among the Hindus of southern India and Sri Lanka, especially by members of the Vellalar community. It is also prevalent among Hindus of the Tamil diaspora around the world. Prominent Siddhanta societies, temples and monasteries also exist in a number of other countries. The United States island of Kauai, a part of Hawaii, is home to the Shaiva Siddhanta Church, an organization that promotes the union of worldwide Hindus, through a publication called Hinduism Today. This was founded by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami (1927–2001), which is currently under the auspices of Subramuniyaswami's designated successor, Satguru Bodhinatha Veylanswami (1942- ). This lineage, which traces itself back to the Shaiva Siddhars of Northern Sri Lanka, adheres to the philosophical position that the original Shaiva Siddhanta as expounded by Tirumular, was and is monistic, and propagates this teaching as Advaita Shaiva Siddhanta. The famous songs of the Sri Lankan Shaiva Sage, Shiva Yogaswami, attest to this view of the nature of God, Soul and World as being ultimately one. Theology[edit] Part of a series on Hindu philosophy Orthodox Samkhya Yoga Nyaya Vaisheshika Mimamsa Vedanta Advaita Vishishtadvaita Dvaita Vedanta Bhedabheda Dvaitadvaita Achintya Bheda Abheda Shuddhadvaita Heterodox Charvaka Ājīvika Buddhism Jainism Other schools[show] Teachers (Acharyas)[show] Major texts[show] Hinduism Other Indian philosophies v t e Texts[edit] The texts revered by the southern Saiva Siddhanta are the Vedas; the twenty-eight dualist Hindu Agamas, which form the ritual basis of the tradition; the twelve books of the Tamil Saiva canon called the Tirumurai, which contains the poetry of the Nayanars; and the Saiva Siddhanta Shastras.[11] Early theology[edit] Siddhas such as Sadyojyoti (ca seventh century[12]) are credited with the systematization of the Siddhanta theology in Sanskrit. Sadyojyoti, initiated by the guru Ugrajyoti, propounded the Siddhanta philosophical views as found in the Rauravatantra and Svāyambhuvasūtrasaṅgraha. He may or may not have been from Kashmir, but the next thinkers whose works survive were those of a Kashmirian lineage active in the tenth century: Rāmakaṇṭha I, Vidyākaṇṭha I, Śrīkaṇṭha, Nārāyaṇakaṇṭha, Rāmakaṇṭha II, Vidyākaṇṭha II. Treatises by the last four of these survive. King Bhoja of Gujarat (ca 1018) condensed the massive body of Siddhanta scriptural texts into one concise metaphysical treatise called the Tattvaprakāśa. Later theology[edit] The culmination of a long period of systematization of its theology appears to have taken place in Kashmir in the tenth century, the exegetical works of the Kashmirian authors Bhatta Narayanakantha and Bhatta Ramakantha being the most sophisticated expressions of this school of thought.[13] Their works were quoted and emulated in the works of twelfth-century South Indian authors, such as Aghorasiva and Trilocanasiva.[14] The theology they expound is based on a canon of Tantric scriptures called Siddhantatantras or Shaiva Agamas. This canon is traditionally held to contain twenty-eight scriptures, but the lists vary,[15] and several doctrinally significant scriptures, such as the Mrgendra,[16]are not listed. In the systematization of the ritual of the Shaiva Siddhanta, the Kashmirian thinkers appear to have exercised less influence: the treatise that had the greatest impact on Shaiva ritual, and indeed on ritual outside the Shaiva sectarian domain, for we find traces of it in such works as the Agnipurana, is a ritual manual composed in North India in the late eleventh century by a certain Somasambhu.[17] Monastic orders[edit] Three monastic orders were instrumental in Shaiva Siddhanta’s diffusion through India; the Amardaka order, identified with one of Shaivism’s holiest cities, Ujjain, the Mattamayura order, in the capital of the Chalukya dynasty near the Karnataka, and the Madhumateya order of Central India. Each developed numerous sub-orders. (see Nandinatha Sampradaya) Siddhanta monastics used the influence of royal patrons to propagate the teachings in neighboring kingdoms, particularly in South India. From Mattamayura, they established monasteries in regions now in Maharashtra, Karnataka, Andhra and Kerala..."

Jaya Guru Shiva Guru Hari Guru Ram Jagad Guru Param Guru Sat Guru ShyamOm Adi Guru Advaita Guru Ananda Guru OmChid Guru Chidgana Guru Chinmaya Guru Om (not sure about all the variations of this but have always appreciated it!)

I'd say that one (a master) can demonstrate understanding which may or may not be understood...also that the Self/heart can not resist or refuse the call of the Self/heart thus its leap so to speak is not just in wild abandon...

"Now, then, it is not just through an analysis of the mental processes that this 'I' will go. On the contrary, the more it is studied, the more it asserts itself. It is only through a rigorous enquiry that we shall be able to grasp our experiences as an integral whole, and not as a combination of different fragments. The metaphysical intuition is an 'infused' knowledge which comes with the letting go of the ego, when everything has been renounced. (Gita, 18.66)"Now, then, it is not just through an analysis of the mental processes that this 'I' will go. On the contrary, the more it is studied, the more it asserts itself. It is only through a rigorous enquiry that we shall be able to grasp our experiences as an integral whole, and not as a combination of different fragments. The metaphysical intuition is an 'infused' knowledge which comes with the letting go of the ego, when everything has been renounced." (Gita, 18.66) I'd say that without the additional aspect of deep purity of emotion this method will probably not work so well, for the "God" looks more to the heart than to inquiry as alluded to with "surrender" although more than just the importance of surrender...

nor George Carlins

true, don't get attached to the wind just let it pass (and dissipate into the void)

more like the True Self realizes/uncovers that it is not a composite/transitioning self, although still making use of and polishing same.

also meaning the Self does not cease in any way as we may know ceasing to be...

hmm, "when the mind stops", could that also mean that the powers of mind to really nail down anything further...including cessation or action as we normally know them also stop...for then it's a whole new ball game so to speak.

Om does not disappear being eternally and unbreakable in connection...but...

in meeting her

btw, I'd say this earth world exists in major part with the power of the very ancient and ever young earth goddess or soul and her countless helpers, all singing it and maintaining it...

with some parallel of "using a thorn to remove a thorn"...

I have not studied parts of Buddhism that speak along similar sounding lines of heavenly Buddha worlds being brought about, have you?

a fair and plausible reply , and also a method often used in forms of Abrahamic religions with dire results

I'd suggest that saying of, "first there is a mountain, then is no mountain, then there is". also "the wisdom of non-attachment" to deal with such arguments

i'd say "foul" is a word that elicits more than just dispassion although that drift is there. Still the knowledge of what I've mentioned was also in place ages ago and how it could be discounted ages ago does not sound right to me even with a jockeying around of context.

"7. See how the true Self has been ignored and the body has become identified with the Self. Consider this foul body comprised of blood and bones beside that unblemished, pure intelligence!" I also consider the underlined text above to be a counterproductive statement, for not a single human Rishi/master was without the need of birth and all the learning experiences gained from the same, (like the rest of us that also struggle along) besides them gaining various forms of pranas related to the physical which were transmuted and added to sum total of their effort toward and break-through to Self-Realization. How about your view of said text Dwai?

taking prana or energies and molding them into your own powerful bubble of another relative reality via willpower is one thing, but it is not creating another non-duality and or another Siva which are foundational, thus any true Rishi would not and can not go against that foundation via a relative will.

when catching a gnarly wave as a surfer you don't have time to think... you just do it or wipe-out . (so the the time to think is before lining up for the wave, after that it is upon you)