3bob

1st pointer for learning surfing: Surfing is great although the learning curve can be rather steep (or steeper than it needs to be) without some help and tips to begin with... For instance starting out with something as simple and fun as belly boarding in the smaller waves close to shore is a good introduction to the power of the ocean. One needs to get a good feel for the timing of waves and how to get around in the water without wearing yourself out from unsafe battles with things like current conditions, tides, white water surges, cool temps, beach type and location, crowds, time of year and possibly certain types of ocean creatures - with some knowledge of those factors one can get off to a better start and concentrate more on the fun of it! Om

Not unlike a single atom (or Atman) of Spirit.

Yes, as to the connection(s), although the term merging is not a full anology imo; for instance electrical energy does not always exist in the same form, nor does it always have the same type of connections. For instance it can flow in copper wire and it can also flow through a transformer (the core of which has no wire) as an eletromagnetic field after which it can then be changed back again to flow through wire; in that sense an electromagnetic field can not directly "merge" with a wired electrical device which it can not make a connection to although it can and does make connection(s) via various types of transformers. I believe such is alluded to in TTC 43 with the saying of, "Only Nothing can enter into no-space". (being that the 'transformation' which enables that type of 'connection' or entry to take place has been made) Further, this anology above could be used with the idea/fact that a Great Sage has in place, operation and mastery all levels of transformers from the Tao to the One and on to the Ten Thousand and is thus able to connect or maintain connection to or with all levels of being with optimum and beneficial effect... (whereas "plants" in comparison, which were mentioned in another string, only have a few such transformer possibilities)

In a way the word "return" can be used for part of an explanation here along with the word "merge"; thus it could be said that there is a return through layers of permutations to the less permutated... yet it is important to realize that all layers and permutations are connected; - by the way and in relation to this we may hear someone say, "all is illusion" or "all is samsara" and ask ourselves what does that really mean or how can that be if all layers and permutations are connected? For example: - if we borrow some Buddhist terminology for a moment and overlay it with the ladder implications (which some may accept and others reject) it would mean that the "beyond the beyond" (which is sometimes intellectually obsessed upon by some at the expense of everything else) is also connected to the various "liberations" (as described by doctrine) back to the 1st jhana and also from that back to lesser states; - thus if the 1st jhana is connected to yet is obviously not the same as the "beyond the beyond" then is it correct to dismiss it as "illusion", or is such really samsara not fully understood which when understood is nirvana - as given by certain Buddhist teachings? When the Earth (as a form of being or soul on a far different scale than us) returns to or evolves to only a heavenly vibration then she is become a heaven (!) or a heavenly realm of being, thus no longer in the state of an earth which includes lots of more varied permutations and or vibrations. What is "left" is that which never really left nor ever changed although it is still connected to change... good luck with that one :-) What is "left" as you've asked can not be divided, broken or undone as compared to various permutations (or aggregates if you prefer) can and will be, sooner or later. Also it can not be limited by or over-ridden by any powers of mind, all of which are "born" - further it is only known by Itself as Itself, or in using a more personal variation, by yourself as yourself. Have fun Om

Yama and Niyama, the misunderstood yoga (quoted excerpt from Bruce Boyd for anyone interested) "I think nothing about yoga could be more sadly misunderstood than the principles of Yama and Niyama. As you may already know, according to an ancient and widely accepted system set down by the yogi Pantanjali, there are 8 "limbs" (astanga) of yoga, which are arranged in an order suggesting that they might be steps towards the ultimate goal of union with God. Considering that the translation of the sanskrit word "yoga" is "union", that assumption seems reasonable. Problems arise however in the assumption that the beginning limbs/steps of yoga are more easily understood. They are certainly the most familiar concepts to us: the first limb being moral restrictions and the last limb being complete merger with God. The entire list is: Yama (moral restrictions; "don'ts") Niyama (encouraged daily behaviors; "dos") Asanas (special yogic physical exercises) Pranayama (yogic breathing exercises) Pratyahara (withdrawal of the mind from the 5 senses) Dhahran (concentration exercises) Dhyana (contemplation of God) Samadhi (union with God) Surprisingly, to me the order suggests levels of *decreasing* likelihood of misunderstanding what the limb is all about, but for the moment let me focus on Yama and Niyama for a couple of reasons: A. Practicing them is absolutely crucial to making any progress in yoga B. A proper understanding of how they work can alleviate a lot of unnecessary fear about them Yama yoga consists of 5 things that a yogi should not do if he wants to get anywhere with his yoga. 1. Don't hurt anyone (includes thoughts and words as well as physical actions) 2. Don't lie for personal gain (also includes thoughts) 3. Don't take property that belongs to others (also includes thoughts and words) 4. Don't hoard unneeded things (also includes thoughts and words) 5. Don't seek personal pleasure from the world (also includes thoughts and words) Niyama yoga consists of 5 things that a yogi SHOULD do if he wants to get enlightened 1. Do keep your body, mind and environment clean (includes thoughts and words) 2. Do maintain a peaceful/cheerful mental state (obviously includes thoughts and words) 3. Do study spiritual books (ideally involves thoughts, words and action) 4. Do make personal sacrifices for the welfare of others (includes thoughts and words) 5. Do make God the purpose of your life (obviously involves thoughts, words, and action) There are already plenty of books going into great detail on these points. My purpose is only to point out something about these "rules" that I feel has been sadly overlooked, and that is the tremendously liberating effect they can have. My guru often said "a yogis is a practical man," and all the limbs of yoga are part of a scientific system designed to bring great joy to the practitioner, not frustration and guilt. Yama and Niyama are not a set of rules set up to make life more convenient for parents, teachers and heads of state. They are a direct tool for the liberation of true intellect. And most amazing of all is that the effects are immediate; assuming you really "get" the principles and practice them in your life. One of the areas where most religion has failed us is giving us the notion that if we behave properly now, we will reap the benefits somewhere way down the road. To paraphrase: good behavior now will give us only frustration in this life and we are left to hope that a reward will come in the afterlife. Some people find comfort in that; most folks, however, are looking for more from life than that way of thinking can offer us, resulting in the completely unnecessary lack of popularity of religion these days. Back in the 60s and 70s when Eastern religion became very popular in the West, young people got all excited by the more practical possibility of enlightenment, but unfortunately threw the baby out with the bath-water and rushed briskly past moral principles, so they could quickly get on with the veg diet, fasting, yoga asanas and meditation. In my mind, this was a major mistake and possibly the very reason the whole Eastern religion boom fizzled out leaving us with nothing more than commercial yoga schools on every corner. It just doesn't work like that, and I find it very sadly unnecessary. Back in those days I told a friend that my take on the various limbs of yoga was that "meditation is what really gets us to the goal and the other stuff just makes the journey more comfortable". His response surprised me. He said he always felt that "Asanas are the practice that gets one to enlightenment and meditation only gives us a glimpse of the goal." Well.... nowadays I think a strong case can be made for yama and niyama being the practices that actually get us to enlightenment and the other limbs only serve to flesh out the basic structure set down in yama and niyama. What more could there be to spiritual life than Yama and Niyama? Of course the other limbs of yoga are very important. They are the nuts and bolts, the "how to" of the various points of Yama and Niyama. Similarly, within each of these other limbs (asanas, pranayama etc) there is an ocean of knowledge which must be acquired from a competent teacher. So, Yama and Niyama are an indispensable base; furthermore an integral part and starting point of yoga, but in those roles they needn't be seen as an unfortunate impediment to juicing the joy out of yoga. If you check the list of exercise classes at any local gym you will certainly find an asana class, but I doubt you will find a class on Yama and Niyama. You won't even find one at your neighborhood yoga school, and that is kind of sad to me, because there is so much joy hidden in Yama and Niyama..."

That is one way of looking at it; another is that the thoughts and or areas of mind are already there or here... like software in a pc is already there, thus thoughts only seem to arise when in fact they only come to life if some type of energy runs through such software. (and all the software of the universe, so to speak, is already there or here at once with bits and pieces only appearing to arise in times and places because of limited perspectives related to same.

Also, only one with foolishness would put power of various kinds in the hands of a youngster who can not handle it. (and such is not bliss)

let's just try realizing that the mind and thought areas as not being you or yours per-se.

true in a way although I wouldn't say "fun" as seen in a free-flowing, dancing type way...

ok, hehe

"I'm trying to keep it cheap..." Mike md. Has someone said something about money, or do you mean your expensives for logistics? A person can not really pay in money for this kind of help, nor should a true master charge in set terms of cash - but that sure doesn't mean that a price of some kind will not be involved!

True religion follows Spirit, for instance and as alluded to in the TTC with, "earth follows heaven". Birds are very "religious", they sing to the sun every morning without hesitation. (thus without twisting and turning on skewers of stiflingly convoluted debates about the pros and cons or reality of singing with the Spirit... or those that sing an unsinging.

also to Seth

Write them and verify exactly what they mean if you want to be sure. I take it to mean the book in its entire script, or to get permission if parts are used otherwise. (such as in a form or context that they haven't had a chance to review and ok) Btw, several people may be "monks" in an Order, while only one is the lineage holder and Sat Guru at a time, also the "HA" publishing you speak of only happens after the head of his Order (of monks, swamis, yogis, etc.) gives approval, who at that time was Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, thus the term monk is only one out of several and more descriptive meanings or titles that are used in Hinduism.

The rest of the TTC alludes very well to what is meant in the last line of 33, but without experience of same this is mainly a word game.

Seth, Please feel free to share some burning yama practices and consider deleting much of the rest. Btw, I see no tilte or empowerment of "Swami" or such in front of your name...(which in itself is no guarantee either) and further proven in part with a string of posts that give particular methods that you in little or no way can be responsible for or make corrections one on one with an often "wannabe" internet audience.

Hello TI, I submit a lot of quotes myself but I believe your latest in this string was a major under-statement (although correct on one level) when you used the term "monk". Btw, as far as I know that school frowns on their particular texts being used (such as being partially quoted or otherwise) without permission... even if one means well as you did. I to need to check further into getting permission(s) for some of the (school) materials I've sometimes quoted like from the Divine Life Society; then again I see no problem in quoting from universal texts such as the upanishads that are not limited to, or copyright with a particular school. Om

Hmm, no one has exactly suggested prayer. (?) A good thing is that right now you can pray without having a particular system, special methods, knowledge, and years of study. Just pray sincerely in privacy or at a temple (of some kind?) for help. Heartfelt prayer is a spiritual practice that is safe for everyone... while the warnigs about certain types of other "spiritual practices" does sound very valid for your situation. There are types of beings who can help directly or bring about help indirectly... btw, a deeply sincere and continued prayer can not be refused or ignored by the universe although at times it may seem that way... and what starts and takes place in the subtle realms will end up taking form or effect in the physical world in one way or another! I am not qualified to help you except in giving witness that there is help equal to the task. (and then some!) A little bit of "this or that" may give a little bit of relief "here and there" or "now and then" and should be better than nothing until greater resolution, but it sounds like you are often way past trying to maintain at certain times or during such episodes! Dealing with such energy from the outside so to speak has certain limits, there are a tiny handful of masters in the world (and in the purer realms) who can deal with and reach such energy from the inside - but needless to say they probably won't be found at every street corner "kundalini yoga" studio! ...but if or when it comes down to it they will be found when your whole being calls out to them, which also includes not giving up common sense precautions when it comes to dealing with the condition and various people or beings that you may also come into contact with. Good fortune to you

I've noticed a lot of Christian related topics posted... perhaps we could also use a sub-forum for those?

In Hinduism the "abyss" sometimes means the lower hells and also the 7th hell, which is only looking to devour with crushing malice, and is in no way picky about who or what form of energy or soul it consumes. (thus another word meaning with lots of potential misunderstanding, misapplication and or misuse)

Apech, Thanks for the feedback/link. My "other question" was an indirect wondering of why one might be strongly against the sub-forum idea if time and space for same are not really factors, then again the link does show reasons other than that as to why.

Could you give a link to that poll? Btw, is there some kind of limit on space or time for site areas that don't get enough use in your opinion?

Who knows, but I hope there would cool cats, no texting during sex and the Moody Blues.

Why? - because imo we already get a lot of Christian posts on the general board, some of which are along so called "esoteric" and or mystical lines that some members have interest in... whereas the general forum seemingly would (should) be more along various Taoist lines being that such is related to the primary intention and name of the site. (besides the Buddhism and Vedanta have there own sub-forums which sometimes mitigates the number of pitched battles around here that can dominate the general forum)

I'm not sure of the meaning in your first sentence above but I'd say that the first teaching namely: "1. Don't hurt anyone (includes thoughts and words as well as physical actions)" is the foundation of yoga as a spiritual science that is known and tested to bring one into synch with spiritual truths that apply to all beings. Thus this yama could also be seen like a perpetual and unfailing guardian standing at the gate to stability in so called "higher practices" (here in the sense of greater pranas and powers) because without it (and the other so called basics) all else will end up back-firing and failing even for otherwise advanced yogis.