3bob

There are various terms for such transmutation practices which are used by many... btw, one should not take to big a bite to begin with until one gets bigger. (so to speak) I have some excellent "school" quotes along these lines somewhere,(?) maybe I'll dig them out. One example of a very powerful transmutation event is when Lord Jesus said, "forgive them Father for they not what they do".

Btw, this string was started with a "4th way" reference which is also termed the way of the "sly man" or one who more or less transmutes anywhere, anytime and anything without needing to be stuck with a particular form. (such as the ways of the fakir, monk, or yogi, that is if I remember correctly)

All these bodies, all these minds are things. The real is not one or even all of these things, and knowing that is not a knowing that things can have. Things may be gained and things may be lost, but the "Wonder of wonders" can not be gained or lost, further no being, power or school can give or take that away, although such can help prepare and help bring synchronization but even then it still comes down to itself revealing itself to itself, which "things" can not take separate credit for...

Death died like a deep dream one finally awakens from, replaced by freedom to "Fear not" and doubt not. Further, there is no dissoulution of the real, for niether "death" nor "life" can reach it, thus the real worries not of forms coming and going for worry is not of its nature.

My view: anyone that has to verify their enlightenment against any text is still bumping around someplace... for there is that which is of no doubt which no text or another person can ever prove via any form of external verifciation.

the greatest "secret" is right under our noses in plain sight... btw, it can't be found anywhere else, even in the so called "highest heavenly realms" or "mystery schools". Good hunting...

I like this one: http://swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_79.html

true religion and true nature go hand in hand, there is no separation.

Thanks, and thanks for your considerate reply

Speaking of context, there is what could be called westernized forms of "Hinduism", which we in the west can come to know certain things about... on the other hand there are still some of the original lineages of Hinduism started thousands of years ago that have not been "westernized" and or also put into handy books of English text; thus those in the west or even many in the east can seldom come to know much about such lineages just through text, regardless of what language is used. Anyway Anamatva I wasn't that fair with you in this string and I could have/should have been more diplomatic, further you seem to be a good person and mainly just asking questions... yet I can imagine (and perhaps you can to?) of some of the possible responses if you walked up to an ultra-orthodox, traditional Hindu Swami in a cleanly maintained Temple in India (or anywhere else) and happily blurted out something like, "your tradition is just like the mud I love to roll around in"... Good fortune on your journey, Bob

What is a Christian, or a Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist, Agnostic, etc...? Millions say this and that, but such are all just vehicles.

More than likely, same as I've done and many others have done at various times in various contexts or situations before, yet (and this is one of my points) such is often not enough when dealing with powers that be.

Assume nothing, don't be a softy in regards to me, and perhaps consider this as a polite exchange compared to those who can really rip up certain notions... Om

Not a bad try Seth, although the word "Love" is often used for anything from a-z as I'm sure you well know. lol

You are not a shrink so give that up... and I'm not either I "just" pointed out what sounded to me like a careless conotation on your part which if I understand you correctly you've now said you will be more careful about in the future which should be enough to clear up the "issue" which was also there in the sense of your "expounding" remarks made about other, loftier or dryer paths in comparison.

You (and some other posters here) could be missing some common sense ? Rolling around in the mud has a close conotation to "rolling around in the gutter"; I shouldn't have to point that out to all the experts on sublime books & gurus or those that seem to want to gobble them up like another choice on a fast food menu.

"Shaivism is like the mud i love to roll around in" Anamatva That sounds like a stupid thing/conotation to imply, (?) You don't need more books right now, you need more respect.

and which natural state of being would that be... as a human body, as a mind, as a soul, as a spirit? Religion is part of form and to deny form is at least problematic.

Giving up religion is just another form of "religion"... negation is no better than affirmation because it takes two to tango. Generalizations are seldom truisms, diversity is part and parcel to countless beings and not separated from feeling or fact, btw various manifestations of compassion (which knows no conditions or bounds) still uses all forms or sorts of diversity to act through, and that is a special wonder and joy when first realized compared to being deaf, dumb and blind to deathless Spirit... Om

------------------------------------------------------- Dwai, I basically agree with the quote and would also add that some of the misinterpretation mentioned may take place because of how different the lives of householders and renunciates can be, more so in certain sects and related cultures that are active in a very diverse country and population like there is India! The last category of manifestation would not be without Paramatman, yet Paramatman does not come and go nor is "that" affected by categories. Om

the "I" being alluded to has no such limits, so our communicating is off on that; and of course there is (edit: no) wishing away of Dharmas or karmas, are you implying I'm saying there is?

which "I" is (so to speak) here before, during and after the universe...? (and universes that are coming and going in endless cycles) Dharmas and karmas are exacting in responsibilities and unavoidable by a separate "you".

which "you" is me?

I was here before the universe, during the universe and I'll be here after the universe... it's all weavings of mind stuff coming and going. Om

I don't exactly assume that, for on the other hand is the story of Lord Shiva and how he came to have a bluish throat from eating poison just a myth?