3bob

With 50-100+ (or who knows how many?) major translations of the TTC floating around it is hard to say which is more "proper". The one I use is from a Chinese person who is very familar with the writings. Besides if one does not also relate experientially to the TTC in various degrees besides only relating in an intellectual or philosophical way, (thus only in part) then we tend to have never ending debates of "maybe it means this or maybe it means that?". Which pretty much happens with any of the "spiritual" type of teachings.

yep, more or less agreed. and not bad MH

And what of "preaching" to not preach about what one takes as preaching... yet many others don't and the basis of the website doesn't? Thus I wonder why certain people even bother to throw stones or comment on stones and other subjects around here and instead don't join sites where mystical stuff is ignored out of hand for its non-proofs and or silliness. Are such types here to preach to or counter those they see as being misled because of their interest in and experiences with unprovable mystical stuff, if so (and you know who you are) you are barking up the wrong tree imo... Om

"...But no one can ever cause anyone else or themselves to feel the oneness, it is either felt or not" So true Steve, although I suggest the word [force] may be somewhat better to use than [cause] in your sentence above; and I'd add that the same idea applies to no one being able to force anyone not to feel/know of same. Om

(oops, double post)

...in some part of Buddhist doctrine the Buddha is recorded as speaking something about mind/brain/aggregates and also consciousness in basically absolute like terms. Then in another section of doctrine (that I could quote instead of parapharse) He is talks about legions of invisible beings that no one there can see or hear yet they are all gathered about in the area to pay their final respects to Him near the time of his passing. Thus go figure (or not) what sounds like a serious contradiction on his part and which I believe some Buddhists overlook in relation to this subject? Om

...as for the "non living", what or who is that really?? "...To be one with the Tao is to abide forever. Such a one will be safe and whole Even after the dissolution of his body". from TTC 16

"Rocks", also known as stars and planets not only talk but sing in Tao all the time, but generally we don't hear their voices beneath the noisy deafness of our mankindness. Om

Considering or using previous logic in this string (which is more or less) along the lines of "matter=energy" such does not sound sound. ruff ruff

Well if you have the full quote and could share it here then the context of his teaching could be better commented upon... I only threw out a general but often mentioned type of problem (from various sources) that has happened to many Beings. one's range of belief does not always equate with ones range of possible experience...

a (edit) -person trying to become- a "god" can be less than a micron measurement away from becoming a "demon" thus "doing things" is not the point...

(an interjection on my part since you were asking Dwai) An analogy: The witness about "unity" that is made by a Being who also spins as a weaving back in a 3d world - can only speak of the 6d experience or its aftermath through the use of 3d tools... does that mean that the 6d is not still there? I'd say only to those who accept the drawing limits of 3d as full proof. Anyway, the unity experience of all time/space and further yet - its dissolution which could be described as an implosion or return to that which it never left, still stands or is still there, regardless of the apparent or relative "problems" you mention of coming and going. And this text probably doesn't help any?

methinks the white cat is barking up the right tree...

3bob: "Dear MH, are you saying the dear trees are not consious (to whatever degree possible for a tree)" MH: "Okay. I admit defeat on that one. Hehehe. A tree is a living thing and it contains the life energy of Chi. How about I use the rocks that slide around in that one area in Death Valley? They move but yet I suggest they have no consciousness because they are not living things. 3bob: If Tao is not 'universal' and conscious (in ways beyond human circumscription) and thus can be nailed down by intellect then game over.

Btw MH, That must be a heck of big brain the Tao has tucked away somewhere?

Ok MH, Thank you for the feedback. :-)

Hehehe - How about I use crystals that have ordered growth? Thus I reiterate that "consciousness" is in no way limited to 'common' human concepts about same. (although one could narrow things down drastically and make the 'human' variation the topic of the day) Om

Dear MH, are you saying the dear trees are not consious (to whatever degree possible for a tree) HEHEHOHO

That's a 10/4 back to ya.

Thanks Jeff, well said by you also.

Thanks for the pleasure of this thread as a place to participate in, Manitou. In this case - uncovered and unfolded would better define the word "gained" in my way of inpretataion; also I'd say that any undesirable traits are not exactly "within" but more like on top of or on the outside of the soul body acting like unclear, rusty, and poorly working attachments that bind us when such filters cover our eyes. (so to speak) The enlightened vision with unconditioned Love that you speak of is an irresistable force that forces not, for when it sees it sees no separate other. Nice morning to ya, Om

This authors writing style is somewhat difficult... for anything put into terms of being accumulated or possessed (like property) can also be lost such as the grand heavenly realms, various prana's, knowledges, etc... for only "the soul of the soul" can not be gained or lost - It already is and forever so. Om

Agreed also. (with such as being tested) Om

"...The power of the Spirit, which is "the power which the disciples shall covet," I think this word usage by the author could be misinterpreted; for Spirit does not covet it gives, such as Spirit unto Spirit. Further, the truly powerful person does not really have the power (and knows it) for then the power (and Truth) has them and uses them as its vessel or tool. (thus with no resistance - no interference - and no divided mind or will that could succumb to the "evil" of trying to claim the power as their own for use in personal designs, which btw can start out well intended and end up hellish - namely along the lines of, "the higher one climbs the further one can fall", which applies until a full enlightenment which is beyond any form of falling is attained, as you alluded to or spoke of in your last post) Om