3bob

Just as pure energy and light are spun and woven out of Mystery so is time and space, and so to they also reverse and return... Any thoughts about time and space are only thoughts, although interesting and provable to various degrees such are still thoughts are of mind, and all of mind is also spun out of the Mystery... Few of us dare the "beyond" where mind and memories do not spin and weave, since we tend to think we are a particular mind (along with emotions and a body) and are thus stuck when it comes to knowing that which is an unknownable by the limited power of mind, besides only fools give up their private and group minds that they have so carefully assembled through thick and thin and fought like hell to own. Om

Manitou, Good analogy/image.

I see all of the 8 Jhanas and further "beyond" as being connected... thus not one of them is really corrupt for if one was corrupt then there would be corruption linked throughout all of them! Each builds upon and is related to the other and also further "beyond". Certain Buddhists seemly or directly speak of the Jhanas (effects, states, conditions, etc.) in demeaning and or belittling ways but I don't hear such being spoken by the Buddha; He lived and taught the Jhanas throughout his life and also with his dying breath, thus I don't care much about the negative connotations and what to me is a form of misleading harping touted by certain "experts" along such lines. How about you? Om

Hi MH, I pretty much agree with you here although to me there is also the giant step of "The One", thus every manifest thing could be said to be within the realm of the One, while the One could be said to be the first and the last of the Tao as manifest. (which includes all interplays of all energies being summed up within or under the One) Good day Om

Hello Aaron, Why would or could an aspect of Tao seemingly act out of accord with the great Tao... me thinks because the pov is not large enough. And I'll modify my previous post to say that even certain manifest aspects that seem out of accord as you describe, are also perfect and perfectly inter-playing if the pov is large enough. Om

"Tao" in manifest aspects prefers or naturally evolves which also includes going against what could be called automatic-evolution at some point... Tao as unmanifest is not involved or evolved with such and as you say is perfect. Further, it's really all Tao manifesting as interplays of energy that is doing it if one can attain such a pov. Hmm, opinions about children? How about raising two daughters through thick and thin and still helping them in their 20's? Om

Hi MH, I wonder, is there any knowledge that is really useless or are there just useless mis-applications or attachments to same? There is also that saying along the lines of, "one man's garbage is another man's treasure". Om

Many "children" may not be as young as they appear but could be very old souls with certain inner wisdoms earned the hard way from many lives... somewhere I read that Lao Tzu was referred to or likened to as an old child. (btw the wisdom I allude to is not mentally constructed per-se although mental experiences may be involved or in the cauldron of transmutation) Strawdog brought up some idealism about children... and I don't mean to dampen anyones appreciation of that but it's partly seeing with rose colored glasses imo. "I don't think what we do to our children, in any way is compassionate" Twinner Hmm, Do you think what Tao does to us is in any way is compassionate? There is a Zen saying that goes something like, "No blame" Om

...jumping in here "I feel that the process of acquiring "knowledge" is the biggest stumbling block of returning to our most natural state of awareness in it's simplest form..." Strawdog Then again ime what we aquire or learn is connected with the great and grand lessons of unaquiring and unlearning, for without lessons such as those where is the completeness of wisdom? And without wisdom how deep can compassion be - both in insight and in action? Speaking of children, being a child is just a stage among many other stages, besides a good mother does not long tolerate her baby remaining a baby and being packed around on her hip or back when they get older! (same with the Tao so to speak) "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves" Mt 10:16 Om

The divine song that never ends yet is always new and forever unbreakable is the true power; She uses forms but no form can hold her...

Hi Makyea, Considering options is always good - in this life it's fairly easy to feel like one is backed into a corner or the oppisite of so there being so many choices that it is hard to make the right ones.

Hi Rainbow Vein, Alrighto, what you did also sounds pretty down to earth with some fun mixed in. Om

Some basic math reminders that I'm sure you've already considered: Option 1. The military will own you for at least several years and until you make around e4 and above or become an officer you will tend to get more of the shit details. (besides the military has the on-going need to send warm bodies to some middle-east combat zone) Option 2. New born kids are a 24/7 job! If you feel out of sorts now then you can probably multiply that by 10 and add no sleep along with all of the potential health problems and joys of motherhood! And besides those obvious factors a fairly large percentage of your private life and daily activities will need to be sacrificed for the kids... further, unless you have a good support system of close family and friends to give you breaks it will take just about all of your time and energy! (btw, most younger men remain boys for a long time thus you might have to be raising and training a husband to) Option 3. College, well it is not all cake but you can quit anytime and always switch back to option one or two, or create other options like join the Peace Corp, go fight forest fires, save the whales, become an under-paid social worker, an airline pilot, a cop, a self-employed business woman or whatever you can pull off. Good luck p.s. maybe some quality spearmint tea could help some of the conditions you mentioned, or perhaps a good cold beer and some old but fun type of rock and roll music. Om

Some ideas/examples related to the "law of seven" that Ouspensky wrote down expalain why things often end up not only unfinished but counter to or opposite of original intention or will. For instance many in politics start with good intentions and then end up falling or going going backwards so to speak. (thus becoming the next form of what can go wrong and not just because they didn't finish per-se)

From a particular time line pov things do not seem to be done, yet everything is already done under and or within the One. And if so what does that really leave you to do? ( ) Om

Off topic but I read where K. Gibran recounts part of a past life of jis Judas the betrayer of Jesus.

From K. Gibran On Religion And an old priest said, "Speak to us of Religion." And he said: Have I spoken this day of aught else? Is not religion all deeds and all reflection, And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom? Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations? Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?" All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self. He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked. The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin. And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage. The freest song comes not through bars and wires. And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn. Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Whenever you enter into it take with you your all. Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute, The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight. For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures. And take with you all men: For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair. And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles. Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children. And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain. You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees.

Concepts are of some value but I suggest the with-holding of any hard and fast summations based upon same. Also - elder gods, and various spirits can be fairly easily verified at certain levels, (easier imo than reincarnation) and if it was not for their mostly unseen and unknown activities in various realms then the form of mankind who often takes a stance of overwhelming arrogance of independence would not be around to discount them! A Sage works to some degree with god beings if he or she is working in their various realms, granted that does not mean Sages or enlightened ones are slaves to same but where dharmic respect is due it is given, including that given in forms of Buddhism. Om

The following link is not from a Taoist source but some may find it informative or of use: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/brdup/brhad_IV-04.html Om

CowTao, What you call or reckon as a "less-than-appropiate term" can be repeatedly found and or verified in a great many of VJ's posts; which btw break the Buddhist teaching as laid out in the previous quote, thus how is it you find such as being enjoyable? (regardless of any of his occasional, facinatingly twisted and pompous know-it-all declarations about various states or schools) Imo you have by-passed the Buddhist teaching I quoted eariler and its import as related to certain goings on here. Further, no number of rationalizations or platitudes will ever have the guts to face or explain away an inconvenient truth. I for one (and several others here) are tired of being pissed on by VJ and also seeing him getting away with pissing on others. Btw, his co-opted misuse of "Buddhism" in attempts to do so doesn't make it any more acceptable, true or excusable. Om

Hi Kate, It is not so much that greater tricks and trips can awaken us from lesser tricks and trips of the mind, (although there is some of that but then such often become the next set of replacements) it is that mind needs to come to re-understand its role as servant and tool of Spirit - instead of it wanting to call all the shots... further when we are internally unified so is our faith, on the other hand faith is weakened when divided with cross purposes. Did we give faith and or unity away or is it more like it was it lost, misplaced, divided or stolen? Om

If we take to heart the first part of the earlier quote (recopied below) then we might begin to understand the second part of the quote. "Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You don't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice'; 'You have said afterwards what you should have said first, and you have said first what you should have said afterwards'; 'What I say is consistent, what you say isn't'; 'What you have thought out for so long is entirely reversed'; 'Your statement is refuted'; 'You are talking rubbish!'; 'You are in the wrong'; 'Get out of that if you can!'" Om

Ok in some ways, yet ime the tricks and trips are based in the mind - not in heart/spirit. Om

Hello Manitou, For what it is worth I think your earlier feeling was right although it may not have come out exactly right in words, thus I see no need for the stabbing of yourself - imo. Anyway... take someone like Xabir or Cowtao who do not make it a personal point to beat and belittle the hell out of other people with "Buddhism" regardless of their knowledge related to it, to me that is what is meant by what can be posted here under website protocol. Thus I do not accept your apology as stated above. Om