3bob

I may have been alluded to in passing? Far more importantly when someone (in this case you Mel) directly insult the base or basis of this site and thus many of the people associated with it by using words like, "F@#$ Taoism" (or similar hate crimes) then I believe many would agree that a suspension or termination is pretty much in order... There is yet no, "I'm sorry" to the sites people in general which imo is also in order but of course per the virtues of Taoism (and also other ways) such could never be forced or should not really even be mentioned openly since it is supposed to dawn upon or arise naturally for us... Then again white-washing also sucks. 3Bob

My quote was in direct context to Vamachara from Swami Vivekananda... your quote was from a very broad generic like statement not in reference to Vamachara in particular; and in no way refutes the on the scene observations and comments by said Swami. (at that time and place) I did stereo-type about you more than I should have earlier; although I will also say that it is often a very short step from dangerous left-handed ways to black magic methods... and for some there is no short-step at all since they have joined such practices together. Such is something that level headed people like the the Swami mentioned and many others do not deny. Btw, why a double post of the same text?

another view: Vol.3: The Vedanta in All Its Phases, pp.340-341. "When I see how much the Vamachara [Tantra] has entered our [bengali] society, I find it a most disgraceful place, with all of its boast of culture. These Vamachara sects are honeycombing our society in Bengal. Those who come out in the daytime and preach most loudly about achara, it is they who carry on the horrible debauchery at night and are backed by the most dreadful books. They are ordered by the books to do these things. You who are of Bengal know of it. The Bengal Shastras are the Vamachara Tantras. They are published by the cart-load, and you poison the minds of your children with them instead of teaching them our Shrutis. Fathers of Calcutta, do you not feel ashamed that such horrible stuff as these Vamachara Tantras, with translations too, should be put into the hands of your boys and girls, and their minds poisoned, and that they should be brought up with the idea that these are the Shastras of the Hindus? If you are ashamed, take them away from your children and let them read the true Shastras - the Vedas, the Gita and the Upanishads". from Swami Vivekananda http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda11.htm

Ok CowTao, But no point in putting yourself down either,

"Vamachara" - no wonder you are sometimes coming out of left field since you state or imply support for balck magic methods. Saying "mislead" earlier was an under-statement from me. Om, Jai Ganesha

When making asumptions that are not based on any facts, (aka documented eye witness accounts) not on direct experiences beyond beliefs, and not considering both recent and thousands of years of history and historic accounts... then yes one could be hanging in the wind so to speak. But in this case your generic generalizations and implied advice to me are not really in context CowTao, since I am drawing upon such resources. Om

Actually some of the most remarkable aspects (among others) about Sanatana Dharma is the practice of yama and niyama, which Osho was against lock, stock and barrel as demonstrated by his actions and the mislead actions of many of his students (via eyewitness documentation). If you are comfortable being "so opened minded that your brains are falling out" that is your business but please don't spout on about or imply any "traditional" qualifications on your part. Btw, I have not been talking about Sri TNS and I don't know if it was him, you or some other mislead person who included the Osho quote? -Please do remove such insults to the wonderful, vast and profound religious traditions and culture of what is often called "Hinduism", otherwise you come across as mislead and also misleading. Om

Om Shanti

Whether 30 seconds or 30 years ago various crimes were committed in Oregon and else-where, (and revealed through eye-witness accounts) and if such dosn't figure into the basis of your opinions then that just makes everything hunky-dorie. (the term, "controversial figure" is nothing more than a gloss job imo)

Right Mal, Osho's girlfriend and companion Vivek killed herself back then...

You may have to put the transliteration subject into context with the Max Muller translation of the Upanishads which I copied from, and which was groundbreaking in it's day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_M%C3%BCller You continue to beat around the bush - which is also hard on the knees. Context is important but one should try not to contradict themselves from the get-go imo. Om

Hi DanTin, I only quoted the article... Anyway I can dig your reflections, and thanks for sharing your comments and corelations. Om

"Q: The text you call the 'Khandogya Upanishad' is actually the 'Chandogya Upanishad'... A: The spelling of Sanskrit terms reflects the transcription in the original book (in this case the Sacred Books of the East, volume 1 and 15) which I scanned it from. I do not alter the transcription of public domain texts, such as the Sacred Books of the East. Other systems of transcription for Sanskrit are used at this site and elsewhere on the Internet. There is no 'official' system for transliterating Sanskrit; as long as a particular system is applied consistently, no harm is done" (which is what I also did) My point or a point, that was an example of what may or may not be useful to someone. Btw, (and again) what about when the commentator you are quoting said, "not even one can live by the sight"? Many Sat Guru's or enlightened ones that have come and gone over the ages do live the sight... thus I don't agree with his statement. Om

hehehe, is that plagiarism

Dwai, You have passed along some of your opinions, and myself also; but apparently you are not interested in taking a harder look at the sentence below and who is saying it? "Of those who strive to see the truth and reach the goal, only a few succeed. Of those who gain the sight, not even one learns to live by the sight". Qualifications: if you can use it fine, if you can not, fine also, which is how I tend to see various qualifications at various websites on the internet. FROM KHANDOGYA UPANISHAD, EIGHTH PRAPÂTHAKA. FIRST KHANDA: "1. Harih, Om. There is this city of Brahman (the body), and in it the palace, the small lotus (of the heart), and in it that small ether. Now what exists within that small ether, that is to be sought for, that is to be understood. 2. And if they should say to him: 'Now with regard to that city of Brahman, and the palace in it, i. e. the small lotus of the heart, and the small ether within the heart, what is there within it that deserves to be sought for, or that is to be understood?' 3. Then he should say: 'As large as this ether (all space) is, so large is that ether within the heart. Both heaven and earth are contained within it, both fire and air, both sun and moon, both lightning and stars; and whatever there is of him (the Self) here in the world, and whatever is not (i. e. whatever has been or will be), all that is contained within it.' 4. And if they should say to him: 'If everything that exists is contained in that city of Brahman, all beings and all desires (whatever can be imagined or desired), then what is left of it, when old age reaches it and scatters it, or when it falls to pieces?' 5. Then he should say: 'By the old age of the body, that (the ether, or Brahman within it) does not age; by the death of the body, that (the ether, or Brahman within it) is not killed. That (the Brahman) is the true Brahma-city (not the body). In it all desires are contained. It is the Self, free from sin, free from old age, from death and grief, from hunger and thirst, which desires nothing but what it ought to desire, and imagines nothing but what it ought to imagine. Now as here on earth people follow as they are commanded, and depend on the object which they are attached to, be it a country or a piece of land, 6. 'And as here on earth, whatever has been acquired by exertion, perishes, so perishes whatever is acquired for the next world by sacrifices and other good actions performed on earth. Those who depart from hence without having discovered the Self and those true desires, for them there is no freedom in all the worlds. But those who depart from hence, after having discovered the Self and those true desires, for them there is freedom in all the worlds". Om

Ah VJ the temptation...

Right at the get-go he is making an absolute kind of statement pointing at a type of dead end... doesn't sound like reserach or exploration to me? (thus he is making claims) Sanatana Dharma doesn't point to a dead end... Om

Dwai, Effective at what? We can save that for later... Anyway, imo great caution is in order when an Order/teacher uses an Osho quote on the header of one of their commentaries. The article said, "Of those who strive to see the truth and reach the goal, only a few succeed. Of those who gain the sight, not even one learns to live by the sight". Hmm, who is it then that is saying, "not even one learns to live by the sight"? Thus I'm not sure what to think with that kind of dead end? Om

...sorry to hammer on that for any that didn't know of it, and or of the name change. Namaskar

In well recognized Buddhist text the Buddha mentions the possibility of him remaining (so to speak) for the entire cosmic cycle, the text says he brought up the subject three times but that it was also passed over three times - so he apparently decided otherwise... Anyway, why all the specualation about what these Beings can or can not do? Such is of their merit not ours - and any of them who are truly spiritual would never allow another to stand in their shadow (or shadows of speculation) but insist that they stand on their own! Namaskar

Thanks MH. Actually I've heard about him from several other sources besides just that website but anyone interested really has to do their own researching/verifying. (which I would say is pretty much a general rule with all "teachers") Om

Sorry, I don't anything about them except that I can relate to the materials and teachings listed at the link I gave. (and thought someone else might be able to do the same?) Om