3bob

Say a catch-22 if you will? (which many have mentioned or alluded to) Om

Knowledge via mind in any form is not sufficient... thus if "Taoism" or any other type of school or vehicle could trap and hold the Tao and hand it to us as knowledge, then that would not be the Tao. Om

I've hit my thumb so many times with a hammer that the nail doesn't ever grow back right... but her thumb and nail are perfect.

"Samsara is illusory. Nirvana alone is real. Nirvana IS Samsara. "

Names like Taoism, Buddhism, Confucian, etc., are like trying to pin the tail on the donkey but when the pinata is broken which frees that within it - who then insists the donkey should never have been sacrificed? (edit: my analogy is not quite right if considering certain traditions and meanings, but I found the image useful) Om

"After seeing the Solitary, he could abolish the distinctions of past and present. After abolishing the past and present, he was able to enter there where life and death are no more, where killing does not take away life, nor does giving birth add to it. He was ever in accord with the exigencies of his environment, accepting all and welcoming all, regarding everything as destroyed, and everything as in completion. This is to be 'secure amidst confusion,' reaching security through chaos." "Where did you learn this from?" asked Nanpo Tsekuei. "I learned it from the Son of Ink," replied Nu Yu, "and the Son of Ink learned it from the Grandson of Learning, the Grandson of Learning from Understanding, and Understanding from Insight, Insight learned it from Practice, Practice from Folk Song, and Folk Song from Silence, Silence from the Void, and the Void learned it from the Seeming Beginning." .

Our quintessential "essence" is also the Essence and is incorruptible. Such can not be entered into by that which is not itself, for if anything could then the Tao would also be corrupted. I agree that the conditioned forms of energy you speak of may affect human beings on many different levels if they more or less take over those levels; but a difference I've been trying to alude to lately is that one Living beyond life and death levels radiates out energy like a brillant sun - thus lesser forms of energy can not enter into or influence that. Om

True goodness is rooted in or to the Tao without fear; while an evil which trys to or does steal and twist expressions of such goodness is a thief and a liar who is very distant to the root and thus in fear. (at least) Om

Hi MH, (I was out of town awhile) It sounds to me like you are misunderstnding my intended meaning...? The alluding to I gave was not meant to equate with a skipping out on life; far from it - such was meant to mean the completion of and attachment to life (and death) in the realms of mind/things, thus attaining that which mind can not attain, manipulate or hold in memories. Further, mind of some form or another (including the subtle) thinks of itslef as the real self or in the real world as such is often referred to, but such realities are only apparent and or relative compared to the true self which is in no way limited to being a normal or great person. (however one may define such?) A related point: Ultimately I don't see a "meaninglessness of society" since society is nothing more or less than various forms of energy in flux; btw, I don't feel that many of us here would normally say that the rays of the sun or the movements of the universe are meaningless since such are also various forms of energy in flux... and in that sense the Great Sage rejects nothing. Om

Hi MH, If we really - go all the way - then there is no return to our own personal reality or any form to be locked in, that is part of the price paid - namely the end of being identified as a particular human body/mind that is or is not walking around in time. Such is the death of death and also of life as conventionally defined or known. Om

For me the "Mystery" can also be likened to a "terrible" and bewildering dissolution of all the aspects of mind, including that of our so called personal minds and motives which few of us can bear to let go of; and why is that? because it literally dissolves us as a separate individuals! (who are ultimately and only apparent individuals) And who wants to be dissolved when there are so many fun and or interesting attachments for us as individuals to identify with and or experience? Heck, our possibilities related to things of the mind are more or less endless... so it looks like the Mystery will just have to wait a while since we have so many various things and "cultivations" to do to first, which will increase the powers of our minds. Thus what is it that can gain entry to "Mystery"? (rhetorically speaking) Only that which never really left. Om

you could start a string called, "drug overdose indulgent fools" who brag about it.

Om Na Mah Si Va Ya

A big reason that various types of demons have not made greater inroads is that the Good Earth has Sons and Daughters who have turned into beings of pure, white-gold and they hold back or mitigate a great deal of the evil for those of us who are far, far younger and often foolish! Also, besides those Master souls there are a great many other types of various powerful angel or deva like beings who guard realms and people! Prayer is often advised over many (perhaps most) forms of meditation when one is feeling attacked; that is because many forms of meditation will just open you and 3rd eye visions up to more attacks unless you already know exactly what you are doing and how to proceed! - Thus cases where one already has teachings and personal help that have already been proven out for them. (and which are well beyond books or mixed internet sources) Good fortune to you.

Any types of forgiveness are a start, pure unconditional forgiveness really takes purity of power melded with great wisdom and heart, so while such is possible most of us humans must start where-ever we can (including conditional ways)and go on from there...

Hi MH, A key point the quote alludes to for me is, "the Void learned it from the Seeming Beginning"... thus an often negatively interpreted or felt connotation related to the "Void" as imagined or projected is refuted if one accepts such sayings of a beyond the Void. Om

some buddies for your fun and furry little avatar since you're leaving: http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/meerkat-mischief/264tcrkm?rs=Animal&from=en-us_msnhp&gt1=42006

Umm, I checked with Lord Yama about your status just in case you were trying to pull a fast one and He said that even though you're a "up and comer" you have not yet finished your intellectual training, thus its back to the books for you for about another 10 eons. Good luck, (btw, most of here could use some free grammer and spelling lessons during that time - are you game?) Om P.S. not to mention help fixing my two old Chevys

Well, In my interpretation various chapters in the TTC. do not say that the 10,000 are "great" in this context; thus most of mankind is effectively caught up in and are driven by permutated ways that apply to us when we are in states related to the "ten-thousand"; in comparison the "King" is not being driven by or under the same laws as the ten-thousand because such a one is become a self-made "King" through mastery of heart, mind, body and soul through deeper synchronization with the Tao, just as Heaven and Earth have deeper synchronization with the Tao. And no doubt - such is a great work and spiritual journey to be recognized as having been attained by such Sages or "Kings" if you will. Om

Well I just dropped by to say I've made a lot progress on fixing up two old Chevy(s); which has taken away from me fixing my old Ford work truck , also and just this morning I did some work on the wife's Mercury . Btw, I may be doing some work on a Toyota next week... hey, how about those nutty guys on radio "car talk" maybe they could visit here? Om

The old Zen story goes something like this: The Zen master and a student were walking in the woods, when they noticed ducks flying overhead. "What do you see," the Zen master asked the student. "Ducks," the student answered. "Where did they go," asked the Zen master. "They flew away," replied the student. The Zen master grabbed the student's nose and twisted it, and as the student cried out in pain, the Zen master said, "When have ducks ever flown away?"

Belief is another one of those tricky words... Imo the definiton of "belief" is at best or should be related to an agnostic like pov. and or along the lines of "suspeneded judgment" since the term belief by itself does not or is not always used to mean that one has personal proof when in the belief stage; yet when one goes beyond that stage then one is no longer dealing with belief(s) per-se but with what they know through direct, 1st hand experience. (and I try to always write or quote things here that I've had at least some direct, 1st hand experience with - otherwise I'd have to preface everything I say with, "I believe" or "I hope". The coming into existence of the material world(s) are last in a very long line of energy realities and also the first to perish, thus the least "real" world when one looks at things or the subject from an energy pov. is this one that seems so solid. Om

Fair enough Seeker, I'll buy that.

Thanks for your reply back MH, What do you mean by "magic"? To me there are variations of white, black and grey magic; which are all forms of energy/mind manipulations possible through various forms of energy/mind cultivations. But the most powerful "magic" (so to speak) is far beyond those three and can not be touched by any of them... Om "

From MH: "Okay. You won a cigar with that one. Sometimes I get too concept specific when I am attempting to present an understanding. However, I will still suggest that for self-cultivation we must ignore all externals and concentrate solely on ourself. Well I agree that there is a certain time and place for the way of the hermit and or hermitic methods, yet "no man is an island" either. Thus we all end up having to deal with both internals and externals. And from a paternal pov. we don't ignore our children or they us, but at some point we want and need for them to grow up and stand on their own two feet! And yes, there are many who view the universe as a living organism. I don't hold to this view but I can see the value in the concept. Well if all forms are born, live and then pass away including the manifest universe/multiverses then why shouldn't such also be seen as a "living" organisms of vast and various levels? (although I can see your point if one is only speaking of biological organisms) And I agree, there are many positive virtues that we should hold firmly to and I suppose that Grace is one of them. Grace is the most powerful and far reaching, like the Tao touching the Tao. But I still suggest that we are setting ourself up for disappointment if we place our expectations and even our virtues and values on others. This is a very important point you've brought up with lots of ramifications! For instance one might then ask what is it that can they count on?? Thus can one count on the Three, or the Two, or the One, or on the un-nameable Tao which are all connected? (btw. if these and also "others" made manifest by such are all connected at what point does a breakdown occur when we can no longer count on or trust such ways, internal or external?) Peace & Love! Om