3bob

sounds like good wattage and karma to me

Nac, I didn't say or imply anything about nihilism. Did you see it that way? If so I'm not sure why? Also, I don't have an all consuming need for intellectual labyrinths, or the percieved corrected-ness of juggling concepts related to same. (although & granted such does have a time and a place) So no biggy man, I have nothing to prove or make complex - which is pure, simple and happy. Om... p.s. imo the "four-fold negation" also does a good job of describing what it can not describe when it comes to "emptiness", thus not nihilism or its counter-part - per-se.

There is an electrical transformer, On one side of that transformer and running around in the circuitry of the universe is a little electron, A time comes when the little electron takes a long journey back through the universes circuitry and attains to the side of this transformer that powers the universe, The transformer has infinite power flow yet that is not quite enough for the electron so he crosses over and out of the transformers copper windings and into its empty electro-magnetic field...which is somewhat disconcerting because now he is no longer an electron. If he gets stuck in that field, then he proclaims its emptiness, If not then he crosses all the way over and reaches "none other". Om

There is one true desire which all other desires are offshoots of... Also, there is no "liberation" in attempts at destroying the offshoots of this true, for liberation comes in mastering the offshoots - to find the true. Om

...expcet for where my wife put them

Will seen and felt as an aspect is not so problematic imo. Overly discounting such aspects is really no better than overly asserting such aspects. Will is a great jumper, and leaps must be made, then even if will is then no longer needed after one lands it did serve a purpose.

Hi Xabir, The Zen-ish like, mind blowing stuff is nice but I think your submission/reply several strings back (in the S.N. Maharaj topic) was one of the best I've come across at the site so far. Anyway, imo a lot of this stuff is getting way ahead of the game... For instance, I have trouble finding my car keys - yet here we often talk about and for many of us over-extend into abstractions, instead of going step by step.

There are all sorts mind benders or blowers out there ... so do not be discouraged when your mind gets blown. Buddhism among other paths can easily blow your mind if one is coming from western traditions. Alan Watts (his material is rather dated but still fine imo) explains some of this stuff quite well for those coming from such (Abrahamic) traditions. If one looks at the depiction of Tibetan Wheel of Life and its outer borders, who has free will inside and outside of those borders; what if one is bound by karmas to somewhere inside the wheel - how far then does one's free wheel extend under the circumstances of those various realms? Just throwing some questions out there for possibe consideration. Btw, there is an old Buddhist saying that goes something like this, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

"The highest fulfillment is the result of the highest renunciation. The less you want, the more you get. He who wants nothing from the world finds the world falling at his feet. Even the gods are afraid of him who wants nothing for himself" Swami Krishnananda, D.L.S

Hello MH, Well I meant more like if one is living according to the law of every rat for himself, but not being on the street per-se. Thus countless people and also great Sages and or Masters are also tested on "street" so to speak, and those that overcome have fully earned the greatest respect of all for their mind and beingness is free of falling for or joining in with unwholesome forces.

"They don't believe in God", is more or less a stereo-type as far as some forms of Taoism go, see the quote below: "Yuan-shih T'ien-tsun -- The First Principal He has no beginning and no end. He existed "before the void and the silence, before primordial chaos." He is self-existing, changeless, limitless, invisible, contains all virtues, is present in all places and is the source of all truth". Thus your fellow worker may have been thinking more along the lines of Buddhism as far as a "God" goes. (with a capital G) Btw, several forms of Buddhism do pray for help from the "gods" or "goddess" whom they greatly respect, although not as a supreme God. Om

Ime the law of the street or every rat for himself is actually not a very real world when it comes to spiritual satisfaction and harmony; for such is the far lesser world that is more or less against the Tao, "And what is against Tao will soon cease to be". Om

Hello MH, It sounds to me that your pov is mostly looking at things from the "ways of world" or from the laws of the street and not from the Way of the Sage? (who wrote the T.T.C.) "Oh my goodness" To win the world in sense of: "...To be great is to go on, To go on is to be far, To be far is to return. Hence, "Tao is great, Heaven is great, Earth is great, King is great." Thus, the king is one of the great four in the Universe..." T.T.C. 25 (which is not in the context of being a King RAT who lords it over on others)

Well another option if you have trouble finding Chinese sources (while in transition) is to take some basic yoga classes such as the very inexpensive ones often given at colleges. (such classes are all over the US) Also see if your wife and kids will also try it out, that way it could be a nice shared family experience for all of you! Have fun!! Btw, there are a great many forms of Christianity... so you do not have to "throw the baby out with the bath water" so to speak. "The Sermon on the Mount" is right on! A warning: "Eastern" religions like most forms of anything on the planet also have fanatics, so take care. Good fortune to you. Om

"The meek shall inherit the earth". After the Earth takes the next great step in her evolution, (or vibration) only souls with a close enough vibration to her will be able to incarnate here... the rest (so to speak) will have to somehow balance their karmas or be spun out to other, and more difficult realms.

"we have met the enemy and he is us" .

Ok MH, Under the conditons of being a householder and more so for a father/mother there are definite limits as to what can be renounced and what is realistically needed; whereas for a Taoist Sage/temple worker/hermit/monk/nun/etc. there are different possibilies for them when it comes to certain types of renunciation. Here are some examples below that I see as being along the lines of the quote from Swami Krishnananda: (underlines added by me) T.T.C. chapter 48. Learning consists in daily accumulating; The practice of Tao consists in daily diminishing. Keep on diminishing and diminishing, Until you reach the state of Non-Ado. No-Ado, and yet nothing is left undone. To win the world, one must renounce all. If one still has private ends to serve, One will never be able to win the world. (with one just aspect of the word "win" meaning to me to be master of ones interactions with the world) chapter 7. HEAVEN lasts long, and Earth abides. What is the secret of their durability? Is it not because they do not live for themselves That they can live so long? Therefore, the Sage wants to remain behind, But finds himself at the head of others; Reckons himself out, But finds himself safe and secure. Is it not because he is selfless That his Self is realised? chapter 66. HOW does the sea become the king of all streams? Because it lies lower than they! Hence it is the king of all streams. Therefore, the Sage reigns over the people by humbling himself in speech; And leads the people by putting himself behind. Thus it is that when a Sage stands above the people, they do not feel the heaviness of his weight; And when he stands in front of the people, they do not feel hurt. Therefore all the world is glad to push him forward without getting tired of him. Just because he strives with nobody, Nobody can ever strive with him. 81. SINCERE words are not sweet, Sweet words are not sincere. Good men are not argumentative, The argumentative are not good. The wise are not erudite, The erudite are not wise. The Sage does not take to hoarding. The more he lives for others, the fuller is his life. The more he gives, the more he abounds. The Way of Heaven is to benefit, not to harm. The Way of the Sage is to do his duty, not to strive with anyone. Good evening

When the mind continuum stands still Spirit flys faster than light. Om

yummie

Songs, Meditation doesn't require or is not limited to sitting in meditation, (if that is what you mean?) it could be 24-7 and include all activities. Om

Agreed, and very key points! And there is no private get-a-way to hide from what we sow, this world is getting smaller by the minute.

Hello Ron, Thanks for sharing the fine pov.! And the better prepared one is at the type of self-defense you speak of the more options there are to avoid or turn aside from violence.

Excerpts from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's, "I AM THAT": "I am not even Consciousness, which is dual and perceivable: I am the unkown Reality beyond."

"...so that to me is pretty much something that can be dismissed from having any authenticity whatsoever!" In a general way (and not pointing at any particular school) I don't agree and there are lots of specific examples that could be brought up to show otherwise, and of course there are also various other examples that could be brought up related to your pov., but I wouldn't lump them all together. Om

There is no true rest, fulfillment and lasting satisfaction unless or until _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in per your understanding) .