3bob

Btw, It also seems to me V. that you are taking the Zen Buddhist master's saying out of context because you do not intuitively understand it...

Interesting V, if I'm hearing you correctly in regards to your sentence: "...It is a formless unconscious that persists due to the persistent clinging to existence as absolute and not relative"; as being one of your key interpretations of "Buddhism" then you have just attempted to refute the Buddha in his teachings of the Surangama Sutra concerning the "Absolute"... since the Absolute he points to does not exist relatively as you imply but "beyond". Om

"...to really love, means to embrace uncertainty." I'd take that along the lines of or related to, "a leap of faith" for there is an element of uncertainty in such a leap. (to Love)

"Ananda, the nature of the Absolute is that it is total enlightenment. It is beyond name and form and beyond the world and all its living beings. Ignorance creates an illusion of birth and death, but when ignorance is dispelled, the supreme and shining Absolute is there. Then suffering is changed into insight, and death is transmuted into nirvana". Surangama Sutra And this "Absolute" (or "Self" to use another term that some do not like and imo misunderstand, and who also go to very great lengths to prove their misunderstnding about) is not changing, for if it were then its nature could not be referred to as Absolute and thus beyond the changes of life and death, although it has insight beyond the samsara p.o.v. that suffers in attachment to the apparent or relative realities of life and death. (in any realm) Om

"...Fact is at this point in my life, I'm fully aware that my success hinges on my ability to motivate people in a specific direction, yours does too..." by Longrhythm An aspect of such takes place with "worldly" orientated people using and or manipulating other people and the ways of the world, with such often becoming becoming forms of "black" or "white" "magic". (knowingly or unknowingly and also under various terms besides black or white magic) Anyway, part of a true success to me would be to give up any attachments to or the uses of black or white magic manipulations, thus resulting in being in a truly magical state in the spiritual sense. Om

Hello Durkhrod, I don't have any problem with what you are saying but I can imagine that some of our Buddhist members here would totally reject and then proceed to refute what you are saying (as related to Buddhism) as having nothing to do with their form of Buddhism. Good Luck also Om

One can not wrestle with a demon and one can not wrestle with God and not learn something...

Susan, I know that the following is kind of an intrusive on my part but maybe it could be of use, if not leave it... Niether you nor anyone else is asking or apparently concerned but for what it's worth your form of reply in Post 666 was a let down to me after reading of your many other heartfelt submissions ... Before I have heard you more or less say, "take what helps and leave the rest" which I fully agree with; Anyway I wish there was also more of, "say your truth and leave the rest" going on among all of us here. Bob

Dwai, A more or less related tangent (which I'm quoting below) that your post got me to thinking about: "A Question of Karma" "I read with interest Arvind Sharma's article, "Karma and Gravity, " (Jan/Mar, 2004). It is a bit confusing when he states, "In order to reach a karma-free state, we must give up not only bad karma, but good karma as well. We must perform only that karma which is appropriate for the attainment of zero karma." This raises more questions than answers. First, if we give up both bad karma as well as good karma, what is there left to do? Second, what is a karma-free state? Third, what is zero karma? And fourth, how does one attain a karma-free state or zero karma? (From) Pradeep Srivastava, (Reply from a Hindu Order) Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami addressed this same issue in his book Merging with Siva. He wrote, "One does not have the experience of realizing the Self until all of his karma is in a state of resolve. This means that the action-and-reaction patterns were balanced out, one against the other, through his ability to be steadfast in his yoga, brahmacharya and previous superconscious insights which have revealed the true nature of himself. When this begins to occur in him, he actually sees that man is not man, man is the Self, God, for his karma and the forces of his dharma have begun to become transparent to him. Through the power of his realization, the karma is created and simultaneously dissolved. This occurs for the one who lives in the timeless state of consciousness. If one were to realize the Self each day, he would live his life like writing his karma on the surface of water. The intensity of the Self is so strong that action and reaction dissolve, just as the water's surface clears immediately when you remove your finger from having written upon it." (underline made by me)

Intellectualized philosophy and concepts have a place, but they do not replace the reality of Being and beingness of spiritual power and or the matrix for that power of purity. Imo the word "impersonal" is rather problematic when used in reference to various Ways. For instance I've always preferred the word and concept of "impartial" when thinking about aspects of the "Tao". Thus the Tao could be said to have a major aspect of impartial, "natural" justice, yet if that is all there is to the Tao then the Tao could then be said to be is nothing more than a machine of mechanical and impersonal actions or ways. Anyway, I give my witness here that the great soul of the Earth is not a mechanical, impersonal action! Far from it, for Her depth of beauty and goodness is so great and utterly true that it takes the breath away, yet I would not want to cross Her and her children of irresistable white fire, for certain types of forgiveness have limits and impartial actions of justice can and will kick in, so to speak. Om

The conventional type use of words (including pronouns) to try and allude to what can't really be circumscribed by words shouldn't really be a problemo for us, that is unless we prefer an inflexible, dogmatic, approach and response. A very simple example: the word "darkness" means evil to some, in Taoism it often means unknown or of mystery. Btw, the saying I quoted is from a form Taoism, sorry.

Ok, and I'll also practice what I preach (and hopefully others to) since you are not the only one here who sometimes has a lot to share. Thanks, and Good Day.

Hey Kate, Do horses reincarnate? I know they can have various personality traits to work out. (Btw, I believe they tend to not like snakes) Om

"...Tao is an impersonal force that order the universe without any god interactions. None...." by Tao99 Tao99, I'll barge in for a moment here because I believe there are some great Sages of Taoism that may not quite put it that way. See below: "Yuan-shih T'ien-tsun -- The First Principal He has no beginning and no end. He existed "before the void and the silence, before primordial chaos." He is self-existing, changeless, limitless, invisible, contains all virtues, is present in all places and is the source of all truth". A most excellent and fully enlightened insight (imo) from whoever first composed it!!! Om

Xabir, Could you please paste just one or two paragraphs and then give a link below or attach a document below same... Why, because you often or thus-ness bury strings and other peoples posts within tons of your material that is being presented in -hog the string- way. (even if you mean well from your pov) Btw, I know you sometimes give links, but you also often bury other voices with reams and reams of stuff, which those who want it can still get it through a doc. attachment. Bob

"...and to be in harmony with Tao is the music of Tao." Yes, and most all of these various practices are to put one in tune with that. (all across the board) Om

Hi SB, Nope, I didn't agree with that, although there are parts of Buddhism I do agree with. I find many truths in the teachings of many schools, but don't claim any school at this point. (although I lean towards the teachings of the Upanishads) Om

The "Self" is indivisible from being cut into parts, even parts of light, thus not an aggregate... Think, talk and debate forever in speculation or simply, "know the Self by the Self". Om

Hi MH, That is some heavy duty stuff! A friend of mine once said, "you know I want to try the eternity trip someday when I have the time". (and thus also space) So I can see that doing an absolute nothingness trip could be problematic. Om

It's pretty obvious to others when we try to piss backward.

"working out at gym, having a healthy diet is more important than self-realization". by Xabir How self-revealing of you... Om

Perhaps some people here hadn't ever heard anything like the last two sentences in the short excerpt? (Btw, it didn't feel like swallowing a horse sized pill to me) Anyway, long excerpts about nothing tend to hurt my little brain and stomach. Om

1. Work on correcting ourselves for going against what we know and feel is spiritually "good" is one thing; 2. While taking a stand against "evil" forces of malice who in little or no way think or feel as most human beings do is another thing. 3. Number 1 can not get "warm and fuzzy" about number 2. 4. When number 1 has mastered itself, (which includes types of forgiveness) then the forces of number 2 can not stand against, corrupt or devour it. 5. Beware, such "duality" does not seek a level playing field, or lend itself to engaging in reasonable philosophical debates. Om

"Again...whose Truth is the Real Truth?" concepts to help reach such are not such.

"The Vajrachedikā Prajñāpāramitā sūtra advises: You should not be attached to things as being possessed of, or devoid of, intrinsic qualities. This is the reason why the Tathāgata always teaches this saying: My teaching of the Dharma is to be likened unto a raft. Even the teaching of the Buddha must be relinquished; how much more so non-Dharma. Therefore, The Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā sūtra warns that we should not attach to even the sermon that Buddha himself preached as the Absolute Truth. In Buddhism, it is said that obsession with Dharma is one of the sufferings that should be discarded along with obsession with oneself. If it is believed that truth has substance, this idea can cause obsession with one's own creed, resulting in conflicts of hatred and contradiction. The Majjhima nikāya also emphasizes that the scriptural words are functional tools: Does a man who has safely crossed a flood upon a raft continue his journey carrying that raft upon his head? So long as the mind is attached even to Buddha's teaching, as a basis, it will cherish the idea of 'I' and 'other'. (The Majjhima nikāya I-134, SBE 5: PTS, 1894)." (all quoted)