3bob

Xabir, Your first translated quote above is fine with me; and it says the same thing to me as the other translation I submitted. Your 2nd quote does not quite match in meaning, and lastly the third one sounds like a backwards view... which is along the lines of what I'm trying to get across - namely that a backwards view to the future confines the "Wonder of wonders" to take place in some unknown, distant time - while the Buddha is giving it key witness with spiritual Joy right now!! There is no delusion in hearing that witness nor in sharing of that witness to whatever ability one may have in a timeless moment of insight! All of these major and minor marks are relative dust in the wind in comparison to the "Wonder of wonders" from which they are spun out of. Anyone can attain at least a glimpse of the "Wonder of wonders" inspiration before they attain to being a fully fledged and manifesting Master Buddha working in time and space. Further, Buddha nature can strike regardless of the conditions we put upon it related to an imagined future which is really only apparent and of linear limitations. Om

No biggy; some words of definiton borrowed from the dictionary, 1. "quantum" as related to a discrete amount. 2. And the term, "quantum jump" a sudden, large increase or advance, and also a change in state.

No apologies needed Dude.

If one is viewing from the ditch (so to speak) or upside-down then such complications are more or less real as related to that ditch. But in my reading the Buddha reveals that the view from the ditch is not the true view: "At the moment of awakening the Buddha exclaimed: "Wonder of wonders! All living beings are truly enlightened and shine with wisdom and virtue. But because their minds have become deluded and turned inward to the self, they fail to understand this." Kegon Sutra In a way we could say that the sleeping one can not add the awake one to himself and then he to also awakens... for the awake one has always been so and nothing can be added or taken away from that. (if we agree to use such an analogy, which btw could easily be improved upon but I don't have the words for it at the moment ) Om

Perhaps an analogy would be of use in this case John and Ya Mu? "quantum" like the differences in speeds in coming to a certain knowledge - for instance one method could include a slow, time consuming, deductive, if, and, or but, type of process - compared to that of a near instant, direct, and true intution.

It sounds to me like you have mis-interpreted my implied meaning through your particular quotes...? For if one thinks that they can or will attain Buddha-nature at some "future time" then they misunderstand the meaning of that nature; Buddha nature is only and forever now; (which is wonderful!) for any future time is only apparent and within time and space limits. For instance: "At the moment of awakening the Buddha exclaimed: "Wonder of wonders! All living beings are truly enlightened and shine with wisdom and virtue. But because their minds have become deluded and turned inward to the self, they fail to understand this." Kegon Sutra Om

Your post (among others) shows 10:33am.

Surely you remember from around 10:30am this morning? Apparently we are now rationalizing about implied put-downs... Om

Does that mean you are back-tracking on your previous implied put downs?

Good way to put it John,

Xabir, The Buddha by personal example taught and practiced the samatha jhanas with his dying breath as recorded in well recognized doctrine; thus such were also given as a part of his final example and practice of key teachings. And considering that I don't see your implied put-downs of the samatha jhanas as being valid, especially if one accepts well recognized doctrine related to such fundamental and key teachings of the historic Buddha. Om

I would not exactly use the word potential - in that way anyway. For "we" already are Buddhas and there is nothing that we can do to change that or to create it, even through great practice - although practice removes that which veils. Om

Caution, an ass-backwards variation or idea about transmission is related to getting something from someone else that we don't have -- when the fact is that nobody can give us that something... because we already have or are it on the inside. Thus the most that somebody can do is help us with what we already have or are. And in expecting or pondering otherwise we will learn of great dissappointment brought on by ourselves. If one is always swimming in an Ocean where is the water not? Om

I once met a very ancient woman who is far beyond the count of years, and my God She is always and forever young, new and beautiful! Om

"To whom much is given much is expected..." (and or entrusted)

it is moving so very, very fast that it standing still everywhere at once

Thanks for that CowTao! another from nearby at youtube Thanks Lord Buddha

Xabir, I'll bite on the second part of your reply, it sounds ok although not the exactly the context I was inferring. Where-as the first part of your reply and the quoted material smells kinda fishy so I'll be doing some more research along those lines. Good day, and thanks for your efforts, Bob

Could you quit knocking down that little kid? (before proceeding further)

Again? Ok: Music that is like a consuming swarm of locusts and which draws on twisted types of power from the abyss has nothing to do with the ways of Tao or Purity and kindness of Spirit, granted it does have a certain hypnotic (such as head banging) fascination to it until its demonic motive and hunger is really seen, known and felt for what it is... (and by then it may be to late for several karmic go arounds, since forfeiting out to such a piper enables it to exact a certain price, and there is nothing sophisticated, artisic, mystical, wise or of balanced mind and emotion in falling for that which can be likened to an "underwater mortage" of one's lifeforce and humanity)

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" "...And Jesus was a sailor When he walked upon the water And he spent a long time watching From his lonely wooden tower And when he knew for certain Only drowning men could see him He said "All men will be sailors then Until the sea shall free them" But he himself was broken Long before the sky would open Forsaken, almost human He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone..." from LK

Music that is like a consuming swarm of locusts and which draws on twisted types of power from the abyss has nothing to do with the ways of Tao or Purity and kindness of Spirit, granted it does have a certain hypnotic (such as head banging) fascination to it until its demonic motive and hunger is really seen, known and felt for what it is... (and by then it may be to late for several karmic go arounds, since forfeiting out to such a piper enables it to exact a certain price, and there is nothing sophisticated, artisic, mystical, wise or of balanced mind and emotion in falling for that which can be likened to an "underwater mortage" of one's lifeforce and humanity) Om

Xabir2005: "Actually no, he is in fact disappointed with his teachers who reached the 7th and 8th jhana as it clearly was not the liberation he sought. Disappointed, he left off himself in search of the way, and discovered something that nobody else taught him. One of his titles is the Rightly Self-Awakened One. I don't exactly agree with your particular implications above... In information that I have come across the historic Buddha continued practicing and teaching the Jhanas his whole life, btw the jhanas were given key mention in the last moments of his life! Also, to this day and for around the last 2500 years the teachings related to the 8 jhanas remain as a fundamental and key part of Buddhist teachings! No offense to anyone but I find the title, "Rightly Self-Awakened One" highly problematic and or oxymornic, because the term "Self" and its meanings make this title sound like a particular Self that awakens to no-self, all by a separate self - and as we have often heard there has been been long and sometimes even bitter debate around the terms related to self and its meanings; thus "go figure" why it would be used in a Buddhist title? Om