3bob

Why won't you let it be Jonesboy? If you or any of us really wants to know for themselves what a school of Buddhism (or any other school or way) is up to in meanings then we will have give our life to that school and follow it all the way, instead of picking around as a correlation speculator which is interesting up to a point, but only to a point.

silence may roar more than a thousand astute volumes or words ever can.

to morph a saying, we have met the Guru and he is us

"...If you do not strive with others, You will be free from blame." from chap. 8. Btw. the term "strive" may have a lot of longitude and latitude in meaning

trying to figure out or nail down "Steve" in the way you mention is a fools game. It is also a fools game to try and figure out a True guru in such a way, fortunately gurus are often compassionate about such things, although "compassion" may not immediately be in the eye of the beholder.

more details can often be like more Chinese finger traps... and at the end of the day remaining in such traps does not help when one needs (their fingers) to eat a meal.

components of "karma and blessing" were brought up in the last post which is key to what a True guru does - for it is a blessing to have the teeth of one's karma be stilled from grinding, along with karma being seen and pierced to whatever degree - per the power of that which is beyond karma.

if a person has a sincere enough request made because of a valid need for help or for activity of some kind in some way -as Spirit sees it, then a spiritual being/deity has to respond in some way or another to that call or they would then be breaking with spiritual laws of being. (that they serve)

an attempt* and potential result is only part of the equation which an earth-bound Being can make - with the major and deciding factor being that of the non earth-bound Deity to make and carry out. (as they are guided by spirit one way or another) *attempts (or ways) are of many forms or methods which I'll leave for someone else to comment on if they will...

either many parts of the Bible are seriously manipulated and twisted by worldly powers or Jesus is, I know Jesus isn't so that is where I stand, having said that I still do not accept an "Abrahamic" type summation that others may.

the teachings about eternal hell for souls that is found in and throughout New Testament doctrine can never be correlated or equated with the teachings of Hinduism, thus any wishfully projected thinking along such lines is futile and false.

https://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=5286 excerpt: "Five Powers of Siva: Sadasiva in the Agama Scriptures, A Rarely Explored Form of Siva Reveals the Saivite Hindu Understanding of Divinity and Cosmology The Vedas decree that god created the world, and it is true, he did; but that is a simplistic rendering of a mind-bogglingly complex event. It would be like saying a child grows from two microscopic cells. It is true. But looking deeper, both processes are exquisitely magical and complex beyond belief. The growth of two cells into a human being of 100 trillion cells is a process capable of bringing tens of thousands of scientists to their knees. Imagine, then, comprehending the evolution of the entire universe, from God and of God, filled with 100 trillion galaxies. But understanding God's acts of creation, preservation, dissolution, concealment and revelation is exactly what the ancient Hindu seers undertook, aided, they would say, by the Agamas, sacred texts composed by God Himself. With more than a little trepidation, we undertake to bring forth a summary of what they teach of God and His powers. We were taxed to do this, and we have no doubt the reader will be similarly challenged to comprehend it all, though we hope our several charts will provide an overview of some textual complexities. Still, this central and profound part of ancient India's understanding of our cosmos and our innermost being is well worth the effort. It will give the Hindu priest enhanced insight into the deeper meanings of the temple puja. It will give the advanced meditator new ways to explore the subtle dimensions, the superconscious mind of God within. It will give theologians grist for their philosophical and cosmological mills. It will likely give everyone else a headache..."

anyway this thread is not really about merging except as a tangent which I brought up...

Well said Jeff. And it's true that "God" has built in protection so to speak... but there are lots of (factual) accounts where people went overboard in various ways, something I've "idealistically" done myself.

I will not stop factual mongering...btw, I personally have experience of idealistic ideas being misapplied.

agreed, and obviously because of both the quality and quantity of volumes of information and teachings people would need to be spiritually assisted by higher forces for most of us to even scratch the surface of the material!! (yet and amazing it is that the Self could be said to be simple beyond any measure, although with the term simple or any other term never being able to nail it down) Btw, in the other thread on "merging" I warned about idealistic ideas concerning merging, and below is a short excerpt I picked out to help explain why: (with highlights by me) "Siva, in His fullness, is supreme consciousness with the effulgence of trillions and trillions of suns. Should that intensity be directly manifested, the worlds would be incinerated, and thus there exists a gradual descent of His presence...." - with "directly manifested..." results as described in this context being about the same as directly merging for an unprepared individual...

I'd also say another way to describe it is that all the enlightened beings (or otherwise) are unique matrix's for one Being (or Being-ness if one prefers) that is transcendent to mind.

in electrical terms two electrical generating devices and or powered up busses can merge if their frequency and voltage are the same or within a hair of each other and then very quickly become the same....this is also what is called and takes place when synchronizing a smaller individual generator to a much larger or main buss. Btw, the amperage of the two during and after synchronization are not the same although their total amperage together feeds and equals what is on said buss, thus everything else that is connected down the line and drawing power will be at same voltage and frequency and have whatever amperage is available per its distribution to various loads on the buss.

Hello Dwai, the first sentence in the pdf above sounds very dubious....while lots of the other sentences sound fine. Anyway I'd say that any guru (including those of the Ramakrishha order) that thinks or believes they know better than Lord Siva as Lord Nataraja's workings with phenomenal form and also non-form has problems and also spreads problems. (and has missed the meaning of the Isa upanishad and others)

sounds to me like some think that being conceptually in the know qualifies them for more than they know, but I don't know that about anyone for sure, besides there are certain built in protections that are not gotten around easily although various types of accidents do happen.

why do spiritual orders have all sorts of preparation, why do yogis, masters, etc. of same spend years, decades and lifetimes in training for the changes to come to handle the greater voltages and amperages - go figure besides impressionable and idealistic hopes...(which any true guru would temper and protect against)

dangers: a person sun bathes on a nice day at sea level for an hour without damaging his eyes or body, he then figures he can do the same for longer periods at higher elevations with only minor preparation with some minor side effects but much greater benefit being that he is hopeful regardless of anything else, besides the warmth and light are wonderful! So more is better and that person next gets into a space ship (astral form) and flys it directly into the sun to try and merge with it for the full benefit... (and sure enough the single atom of sun element in him does not burn but unexpected to him the rest of him very painfully does)

Btw, there are dangers in idealistic ideas about merging with a powerful being, for instance imagine a sea creature suddenly coming out of the water and forcing itself to try and merge with a fire; thus help from a powerful being given by the wisdom of such a being as to what is needed is one thing, but if one idealistically throws themselves at such a being to merge there could be problems...

when one contradicts themselves it could be said to be a form of beating around the bush, (although side-stepping same would be better term) more so when "counter points" were already submitted and side-stepped.

"Are you abstained from bias then?" are you beating around the bush?