3bob

there are 1st hand (written) accounts of Carlos C.being a sex creep, besides whatever forms of sorcery he may have got involved with, btw. sorcery is not about Self Realization but of various forms of power manipulation per ego.

as things normally go anyone is free to take it, leave it, put it on the shelf, add or subtract to it (in their own meaning for themselves) etc.. ...besides Guru and types of Dharma are not nihilistic if nihilism is what you are warning about?

as in: "Allow the ego to do what it wants" etc.. thus anything goes and forget Dharma guidelines???

of course there is also a slippery slope to the op... as for Om, no problemo.

Being that the term "Self" or "Brahman" is often used in the Upanishads your post is a good one to remind me that my use of the term Atman is or could be problematic or incorrect to other schools or people if also used to point to Brahman. (thus I edited the thread title and words in a few places) Thanks Bindi p.s. and btw, There are some variations to "panentheism", which I lean towards. Below is a snippet of definition from Wikipedia: In panentheism, God is viewed as the soul of the universe, the universal spirit present everywhere, which at the same time "transcends" all things created. While pantheism asserts that "all is God", panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe. Some versions of panentheism suggest that the universe is nothing more than the manifestation of God. In addition, some forms indicate that the universe is contained within God,[3] like in the Kabbalah concept of tzimtzum. Also much Hindu thought – and consequently Buddhist philosophy – is highly characterized by panentheism and pantheism.[4][5] The basic tradition however, on which Krause's concept was built, seems to have been Neoplatonic philosophy and its successors in Western philosophyand Orthodox theology.

Preparation, help & Dharma is agreed upon, but it is Atman that discovers Atman, so to speak, which might sound odd... Thus it is not an individual Tom, Dick or Harry or Jane, Sally or Sue that circumscribes or plumbs the depth of Atman by their individual human power to discover.

well...form and very subtle form may be cultivated for instance as a radiant light being of compassion and power sitting upon a beautiful lotus, but Atman* is still not that. (a.k.a. "The Self" per the Upanishads)

no need for far out sounding summations...at least with me.

obviously if you only found "masters" with the fears you've mentioned then you did not find, or you could have been blind to finding and seeing true masters, something which you are free to consider or not. truthful traditional or non-traditional cakes (so to speak) can serve the purpose of manifestation and matrix for what could be called the transcendent, which does not mean that such can be mixed or forced together per a new-age type of idealism. (which would be going against "Tao" you implied per the teachings of the T.T.C.)

"new age" type thinking, generalizations or correlating can not force all fingers to point to the same moon, sun, or whatever else...but that is a nice image. Buddhists or anyone else (of other ways) who keeps with vows to their school does not reject their vows or school as falsehoods. true and great Lineages do not pass with a single being, there are secrets about that that only a few are privy to - although larger numbers can see and benefit from the fruits of a true and great lineage. Apparently you mean well Bud but one can not eat a traditional cake from a non-mixable pot of water and oil.

ok, some interfaith recognition or tolerance goes on here or there but the historic founders of the major religions and ways (excepting in certain cases) and also those of many of the off-shoots or other ways are taught to look down on and or refute and reject each others teachings per their long standing doctrines. (which btw. is recorded as something the historic Buddha did) Btw#2. "Hinduism" does not have a historic human founder which makes it different from most religions or ways and also going by its general doctrines, which are supposed to be accepted by its sects, is not supposed to look down on other ways.

does one hear of various Buddhist and Taoist masters getting together on the weekends for Toufu cook outs and tea? If not that should tell you something and also be taken as a sort of pointer about the futility of mixing water and oil although water and oil can be more or less appreciated for what they are without mixing them.

(some info on the founder of ISKCON) "Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (henceforth Prabhupada) also sometimes jokingly called himself and his movement Krsnian, a play on Christian, but neither Krsnaite nor Krsnian became current, even though the institution he founded was named the International Society for Krsna Consciousness. Popularly, of course, his followers were known as the Hare Krsnas, a name to which Prabhupada did not make an objection. Acknowledging his membership in the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya or Gaudiya Vaisnava disciplic succession, he happily identified himself as Gaudiya Vaisnava. However, his relationship with the larger entity known as Hinduism was rather less clear. In fact, he often overtly denied any connection to Hinduism at all: 'The Krsna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion' (SSR: 3). Another time he wrote: 'One should clearly understand that the Krsna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion.' He could be even stronger in his judgement of Hinduism, calling it 'a dead religion' with 'no philosophy' (72-02-04.VAI) or 'a cheating religion' "

Iskcon and their lead swami has rejected Hinduism in several ways - although they sure co-opt parts of it big time!

since when does water and oil mix? Since when has the historic Buddha not said (in effect) his teachings are the only way to liberation with all other ways leading to some level of "illusion", also since when has the term illusion not been beaten to death ten thousand times over by most Buddhists?

doubt devours itself, but it doesn't have a chance against the "eater of the death".

Self-realization/the eternal/Atman/Brahman/and or Sanatana Dharma are not taught by Buddhist doctrine per the historic Buddha nor by Buddhist teachers that teach the same in this day and age, PERIOD; so Buddhist folks or those that lean that way please do not assume or propagate that Atman is whatever your personal take or speculation on it may be. (for instance the Buddha tells his followers to use "Right speech" which is obviously not telling people of other ways that they don't understand their own way from their own experience!)

hey Wells your statements here are sounding trollish, btw. per his recorded doctrine the historic Buddha disagrees with your summations...thus one can not have a quasi-"Buddhist" cake and eat it to with the teachings of the historic Buddha - which btw. you are doing in an unseemly way in a Hindu sub-forum...?

well even if there are 7 of them there is still only one in all of us...

wtf boy? please take that to the Buddhist forum...and also kill the Buddha on the road while you are at it.

again, sounds like its time for this thread to go to the general forum,

no biggy if the bricks are illusions of nothingness...

Atman Om Tat Sat, Om Tat Sat, Om Tat Sat Om...

if folks are going to be mixing up Buddhism and Hinduism in the Hindu forum then maybe this thread should be moved to the general forum instead...

We joyfully fly in awe through her peaceful silver forests, everywhere we look, feel and breathe is of depth-less purity... She was hurt but but not broken, for her unbreakable and subtle song and children prevailed. ...and now not a single unclean thing can burrow below with infectious plot, for her ancient yet ever new truth and beauty has healed all ugly wounds, overcoming the undone.