3bob
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Everything posted by 3bob
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Kaveri, the "small lotus of the heart" and or "city of Brahman" - as also mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad - is not limited in anyway to a size, place or time...but a connection of that in a being or form which does have a particular place and time also seems to bring about related limitations to "that" but such is not really so, thus only apparent. (if you get the drift?)
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Btw., the transcendent is not in denial of dharma but the source of it, and imo all of this harping about the transcendent in denial or dismissal of form is bogus being they are connected.
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Do these practices lead to Demonic Possession?
3bob replied to yondaime109's topic in General Discussion
There is no eternal damnation, for the earthly, solar, galactic and comic cycles roll on for all beings and in the end the "return" is completed for all beings...and then it starts all over again and "goes far". Granted there are times of long term mental/emotional suffering for beings but that can not stop their "return" only delay it somewhere or at sometime within a cosmic cycle. The true Self can never be touched or bound by any form of damnation, only mind can become caught up in that. -
besides karma is exacting and relentless to the 9th degree, with only wisdom and compassion mitigating it to whatever degree may be possible? thus I think we can toss out any ideas about totally random events or effects.
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sounds like a nihilistic variation couched in an absolute excuse for saying so
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"I am the Walrus"
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Spirit to Spirit...
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the op tends to infer or stirs the pot for a debate being you are making a personal point that is counter to what many others hold to... but who choose not to reply to so far.
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Well Dwai, You brought up the refutation of the Historic Buddha's teaching on consciousness in your own way, whether you admit it or not, are you not going to follow through with it? And why not deal with a major source of what you imply is false instead of openly asking all us less renown "you" people at this site? Btw, the True Self or True I view is often and openly refuted by Buddhists who are not shy about doing so and sometimes quote a hundred verses or volumes to try and prove it. If we can't take the heat what are we doing in the kitchen?
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no bites so far, interesting and an age old dichotomy that many have been saddled with.
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Does not Buddhism teach about consciousness in this (aggregate like) way and if so how can the historic Buddha say such?
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there is dharma enough and fulfillment for both householder and renunciate.
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Hello Jeff, Many beings do not fear death, but in many cases that is not the same as knowing the dying of death. Along this line there was a post in the past called "the eater of death" that you may be interested in.
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could be but not when mind is revealed once and for all for what is then there is no doubt or fear for death has died.
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I'd say getting warmer, warmer, getting hot....
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Here is an analogy: think of mind as a computer like device along with its various software programs, they run and run and "think" of themselves as reality, they do not remember nor can they see their software programmer or their hardware maker but the software programmer and hardware maker can easily see them for exactly what they really are....that is like the Self free of being bound by mind but still working with mind. Btw. it is somewhat of eureka moment in mental to spiritual transition to realize one was caught up as a software like program! (or identification)
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Mind can not know outside itself, yet there is the Self that is not a mind or even of the realm of mind type knowing if you will... ....that's the catch for it can't be pinned down with mental logic or the tool of reason, for if it could then it would not be the Self, just another logical whatever bind-able in or by mind or minds. Also "Neti, "neti is a method per-se - not satisfaction known. Several great Gurus have more or less said, "know the Self by the Self"!
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Umm, and apparently you completely misunderstand my first little paragraph earlier? Secondly, the Upanishads are part of Vedic teachings so I see no dichotomy there as you seem to be implying? Thirdly, I have no doubt on the subject and there is really no need for me to read multiple upanishads to find or make an academic point since reading the import of say just one like the Chandogya will cover the primary spiritual points. (at least for me, although the inspiration from all of them is greatly appreciated) Btw, as you well know there are many other schools besides Dvaita which i'm not referring to either, and for instance there is the one that you prefer.
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Dwai, Where do the Upanishads say anything about the Self/Atamn being unknowable by the Self/Atamn? It's true that the mind can not know that beyond the mind but not so for the Self... Jiva is Siva or Self! Also and very obviously and as recorded by very carefully handed down information the historic Buddha was the founder of Buddhism, granted a great deal of written material and branches of the practice of Buddhism came into being after his passing.
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I can dig the intentions of your post Michael, they are good ones! I'm playing the devils advocate somewhat along these lines.... Btw, I have zero doubt about the fact of Atman/Brahman per my experience, as for the historic Buddha doing his very best to refute such per recorded texts there is also zero doubt that he did so - not by my word but by his own. It is also interesting and revealing that a sideways kind of "new age" if you will interpretation and compromise is being made that muddies the water so to speak about this key point of doctrine. On another hand and for instance a lot of people look up to the Dalai Lama and as far as I know he didn't muddy the waters - yet so many seem to say or imply, "'oh, no problem the highly detailed doctrine really means or can also mean the opposite of what it is pointing to...." Anyway I have no problem with Buddhists happily doing their Noble thing or the Noble Eight Fold Path, I do have a problem with the subtle or not so subtle thinking or feeling, "that everyone is a Buddhist and that Buddhist teachings are the only fully viable system, it's just that those people don't know it yet. but they will sooner or later".
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Besides and regardless of my sarcasm, the historic Buddha spent a fair amount of time in his teachings refuting Atman, and that can in no way be denied or glossed over with modern day, super broad tolerant based correlations or interpretations being that his stance was inflexible on this key point of doctrine.
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Anyone read the book, "Toxic Psychiatry" by Peter Breggin MD. ? I'm not in any way qualified to give medical advice so what follows is just my paraphrasing and interpretations from what I've read: Thus it is up to everyone to seek expert medical care. There are so many horrible facts based on expert studies and reams of data revealed in his work! I'm only part way through the book but now I would never seek relief through anti-depressant drugs which work by blunting connections inside the brain to the frontal cortex - such blunting can easily become permanent to various degrees along with all sorts of other horrible and destructive side effects as seen and studied in depth by league's of doctors and medical scientists since the early 50's. And with certain doses of these types of drugs over time - which can vary a great deal from person to person - can effectively end up being equal to the chemical severance of the frontal cortex just as if a physical lobotomy had been performed on them! As brought up in the book it is very important to note and caution that anyone on anti-depressant drugs have medical supervision to get off of them ! And to also have psychological forms of help and support on multiple levels. my paraphrasing again.
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Were the historic Buddha of Buddhism or the Self realized Guru's of Hinduism neophytes...and should we thus discard those teachings since we know better per our enlightened correlations, comparisons and interpretations?
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Buddhist Lama's or Buddhist authorities who embrace the teachings of "no-self" per related Buddhist doctrine do not embrace the teachings of the "Self" as pointed to by great Guru's who embrace Vedic related doctrine like the Upanishads. And neither way teach's to combine such.
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Sudhamma, So in using an analogy are you in effect saying that the sun only has only one ray and that only the historic Buddha found and taught it, thus there are no other fully viable rays to or from the sun....? Hinduism does not hold to such a limited single ray sun. Good luck
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