3bob

lots of speculations - maybe the knife is sharp enough already? Btw, a knife will break when used as a pry bar.

agreed, as long as we can eat an upside down cake with the downside up

...as for there being a Buddhist mapping in some way (?) to recent posts - there is the Tibetan "Wheel of Life" and all that is contained or under its law cannot really gain or lose within or from that wheel, per my understanding anyway and since binding by the wheel must be overcome.

Jeff, It sounds like you are changing what I said namely, "the "One" can not gain or loose from the One". thus I did not say from the Tao which as the text of the TTC. and as you recount - the One emerges (or is "born") from Tao, and in my understanding and interpretation the One also returns to the Tao.

...and I thought resistance was futile since we would be assimilated? (then again Johh Luc came back didn't he)

Another point to consider is that the energy that is can not be gained or lost...further and from a spiritual pov. the "One" can not gain or loose from the One. thus thinking about and exercising the effort to gain Self or enlightenment is problematic - being that the Self does not and can not gain or lose the Self; there is also the saying, "nothing ventured, nothing gained" yet that has to be rewritten for spiritual practice since it doesn't really apply to it in the same way.

...and what if you take a riding lawnmower on the street? (I think as long as you don't hit anyone or anything the cops should let you have your fun )

Atman and or Spirit is not created in the sense of constructing something, whereas a matrix for Spirit is constructed (or woven and maintained so to speak) and can last a very, very long time - for instance millions of earth years. Btw, if Hindu text is referenced Lord Brahma the creator, lasts for the entire cosmic cycle of many billions of years. If Buddhist text is referenced the historic Buddha is quoted as saying that he could have remained (per what I assume would have been in a subtle body by whatever name the Buddhist may call it) for the rest of the cosmic cycle - which he directly alluded to when asking Ananda about it. There are many more detailed descriptions along these lines for various matrix's. (which Taoist practitioner's could go into)

because I don't think we would not be here talking about it otherwise, and as demonstrated in different scales of nature and through related universal laws of cycles.

Saivism resource: (a great deal of information here!) http://www.saivism.net/ and mantra: (with English translation)

Agreed Cauvery, thanks for the additional information and resource links!

There is no illusion to normally unseen electrons passing through copper wire windings on one side of an iron core transformer thus creating a normally unseen magnetic field which then carries (or induces) transformed energy across its core to copper windings on its other side where stepped up or down electrical voltage and current can then be connected and used in a electrical circuit. (which is obviously an undeniable transformation, re-transformation and movement of forms of energy) Now imagine the "Absolute", it to is connected like the transformer described above but instead of just being a particular and limited magnetic field - it Is an unchanging, non-evolving "Mystery" or Source - and on its other side so to speak is the "One" (to me anyway and as mentioned in the T.T.C.) which is the very first and purest ocean of manifest energy after which it contains all of the following and also flowing or forms of energy in flux. (through further transformations by "the Two, The Three", etc...and as in evolving matrix's for same) Anyway, who of us particular beings really wants to let go of everything and "return" to the Mystery or no-thing via retracing transformations (?) excepting for that same Mystery which desires to break free of the identity of limiting veils that cover it - and then realizing that it never really left Itself - Eureka!

talk of illusion is often misleading at best...for when perception is correct there is no illusion. The "Absolute" (if you will) is connected to and through transformations to all existing forms, forms which can not be separate from that connection. (and with that being so where would one say this or that is really illusion?) Not unlike the analogy of the white light on one side of a prism being connected to the colors on its other side, and with that being so are those colors really illusion?

The atom or Atman of us is always beyond the limitations or bindings of form being that it is alive (beyond death) in the eternal moment; while the human form is one of many matrix's for Atman to manifest through. Btw, if it was not for Spirit springing forth from Atman (like in the analogy of a prism) there would be no biological matrix's; it should also be noted that there are laws as to what levels of energy particular matrix's can work with or have "applied" depending on how evolved and in alignment to Spirit they are. Anyway, we are all walking around in an ocean of pure energy right now and in the awareness of that ocean there is no difference in energy, existential separation or fear per the realization of the deathless and free Atman that we are!

think of a prism, on one side white light, on the other side multiple colors (or energy in different forms) which are not the same yet have the same source.

T.C.C. 74

There are some interesting finds going on about potentially hospitable planets outside our solar system...but they are around 12-13 light years away, and if we are not going there for a very long time is not our interest misplaced compared to trying to figure out how to even get a manned flight up to 25-50% of light speed and also last decades in hostile space to complete such a journey ?

...a formless and indescribable chicken? (that can somehow lay eggs?)

getting off of my OP - I've come across various spiritual sources that say our souls/spirits originally came from other star systems as if that were a final answer to our origin, yet lets face it at one time those other star systems did not exist and also came from somewhere so to speak... (or arose) although I have zero problem with the idea and fact to me that souls do travel across great cosmic scale distances and systems.

umm, I have not taken offence by anything Dwai has said in this string. Period (which was previously meant by me, since I can't speak for anyone else) so I'm off -

but they don't go anywhere as in leaving - being that Atman contains all worlds

hey what about "sub-space" while we are at it? Btw, I always liked Sam in Star Gate.

oh...you mean that I wasn't insulted and neither was Dwai, at least in some way mistakenly or not? I find such a presumption to be an insult to me, now does that mean you are going to stick up for me to? - blah, blah - (& no thanks anyway if so) I hope we are not softies here and you can take that as an insult if it makes you feel better and wiser.

what does that last post mean Jeff, for instance like the occasional backhand comments that the historic Buddha, Jesus and many lesser known teachers are recorded to have made about various things to their students or otherwise? Btw, Solomon had a fairly well known saying about being able to take a reprimand but I don't remember it at the moment, and there is Chapter 13 in the TTC to consider, among many dozens of other examples along such lines.

Dwai, There were no offences ever given or mistakenly taken. Besides and imo any person on the internet and in a public forum should have fairly thick skin with the ability to give it and take it to a certain degree -