3bob

Is post 7 quasi-Buddhist being that "non-existence" stuff is graphed on?

Excerpts from Isa upanishad: (which is not exactly on topic but I think has relevance) "The rishi or the sage of this Upanishad is ‘Datyang aadarvanar’. His son, who is leading a normal worldly life (and not a monastic one) approaches the sage for advices on knowledge of the self. The sage, observing that his son has complete control over all the desires and that he is following all the duties and dharmas cast on him by the religious doctrines and also that he is a true aspirant of liberation and dedicated to the cause by complete surrender, teaches his son about the knowledge of the Self." "Om ! That (world) is a complete whole. This (world) too is a complete whole. From the complete whole only, the (other) complete whole rose. Even after removing the complete whole from the (other) complete whole, still the complete whole remains unaltered and undisturbed. {insert by me- thus where is illusion or delusion per-se in this whole?} Those who advocate (and follow) the philosophy of not becoming one (with the Atma), they enter in to darkness; those who desire (and follow) the philosophy of becoming one (with the Atma) enter in to increased blinding darkness than the former. What we get from becoming one is different; and what we get from not becoming one is different; - so have we heard from the wise men who have explained the truth elaborately. That one who desires and practices not only the principle of not becoming one but also that of becoming one, he overcomes death by becoming one and attains immortality by following the principle of not becoming one. Om Shanti"

...and then who will "chide" Lords Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva for creation, maintaining and destruction that is short per the alluded definition of an "unchanging Real" ? Further yet who will "chide" Para-Brahman for those three aspects coming into being?

Does Lord Shiva put down humanity or other types of beings? Nope, Lord Shiva set-up the whole thing beginning with Om and has no need to put down what he brought forth and dances through. Also human birth and further evolution from there is only possible through a mother who is a form and being-traceable back to para-Shakti connected to para-Shiva; so any male renunciate that forgets that or feels negative about women needs to get real imo. (which does not mean disrespect in general to re-nunciates who sacrifice so much to serve...)

Bhakti can supersede logic and in a nanosecond (so to speak) traverse all universe's or tattva's and realize Om! Hari Om Tat Sat

who is a "pure person like you", being that there is only one Self?

imo it's not really doable to mix up the primary tenets of traditional Buddhism (for instance no Atman) and Hinduism (Atman) which are counter to each other - so at some point a person would have to choose one teaching or the other - which doesn't mean that respect for both is not shown.

desire is often put down with unqualified high sounding double talk ... which is foolish as I see it since true desire is alignment with Spirit, for Spirit desires Spirit or - spirit unto spirit - further True desire and its satisfaction is not to be denied being that it is aligned with pure life force which springs forth with Joy and returns with joy...so fast that it standing still everywhere at once. So is there really falsity in desire per-se or is it that True desire is misunderstood and hidden behind passing and temporary desires? And who would dare harm and or beat the desire of life force/Spirit out of a soul?

ok mvingon.... and I have don't have problems in most cases of rattling the bushes a bit to see what might pop out - unless it's bigger than the bush and has teeth

Hello Bindi, That last post reminds me of a certain realization, namely that Truth in the deepest sense is so rock solidly simple, unified, unassuming, quintessentially pure, at peace and "without further ado" - that it mostly escapes us being that we tend to overlay it with various complexities.

the saying, "going with the flow" needs to be qualified. For instance if you are leaf being blown every which by the wind that is one type of going with the flow... but if you have an indomitable will directed by Spirit you are then not a leaf blown about by the wind or by the ways of the world - thus to "return" you go against the flow that is commonly spoken of.

not really if one reflects on the aspects spoken of in Tao Teh Ching, for those aspects did not happen by random chance, also one has to think outside the standard box concernig the word desire - which is in no way only limited to human beings that might have a desire for Hostess Twinkies. (or whatever?)

What is the desire of the Great Tao? (or should we just be dismissive by saying it's unknowable and transcendent)

Thanks for your long reply and detailed reflections Everything... lots to ponder there :-) The idea of simplicity (among some others) strikes a strong note. And there are sayings along the lines of, "when hungry eat, when tired sleep", etc.. (aka. natural and wholesome desires/needs) On the idea of assuming less or expecting less some caution should be considered being that the slippery slope of nihilism could come into play... thus I'd say something more like assume a certain equality so to speak which may be part of what you meant? Such an equality that is not poker faced or aloof - but is often kind with an easy smile and centered attitude for many of the things that transpire. It's very early in the morning and I'm going to sign off for now being that I desire a rich, hot cup of coffee ;-)

interesting thing so to speak is that enlightenment will never come at some future time or after 'x' number of practices - being that some future time is only apparent yet dharma for alll of us beings in time needs to be practiced... anyway enlightenment (which includes the factor of freedom) is only now and is not over-rated unless one is fully satisfied with limited or relative freedom chained with loss and doubts

pretty decent kung fu

I'd agree with that Dwai as far as the mind can reach which is to the threshold of the Self...at which point mind and memory must stop or be set down since they can not make the crossing. (edit: or is this along the lines of what you meant?)

Cheshire cat, If you are satisfied with your beliefs and the results they bring you that is obviously yours to have and to hold, as I said or tried to imply - no one that is new today or from thousands of years ago can really prove certain things to anyone else - the onus is on us to find our own proofs or the Proof, and also not to force beliefs or speculations on others against their will... Thus to me having an agnostic like approach to certain matters has value and may end up giving results beyond doubt, beliefs or non-beliefs that we may have (previously) set in stone.

ones speculation, or speculation on speculations has it own rewards... who could rightly speculate on stealing such rewards from them?

Cheshire cat, Atman is not alluded to as speculative, (for instance per the Chandogya Upanishad) but it's great pointers can never be proof of that which is pointed to; so if you or someone else wants to make it a speculative exercise that's your or their personal take or business along with associated results. Consider such as you will, for anyone trying to force a "why" would be counter productive and futile.

to know oneself as Atman and Sat Guru as that same Atman is telling...all else is of mind...and mind and its powers are not Atman.

If you have a Christian background then belief, hope and faith in Lord Jesus will bring His help if you follow through as best you can on that path...a problem may be in mixing up lots of various beliefs for then one can not concentrate and or focus so well if facing certain or serious problems beyond just interesting or comparative explorations of various paths which often goes on at this site, and which it definitely sounds like you are going through! To question God is a very normal thing, to question everything is a very normal thing including all the reams of stuff put forth at this site! Btw, and as you may already know there are universal spiritual laws that are not limited to or owned by any particular path, for instance if you reach your hand out for help with all your heart behind it - then a helping hand from the universe will answer in some way by said law and the goodness that it is. the Best to you

no-thing is not nothing, which has been said many times here

mankinds attempted use of "logic" is very tiny example, while working logic derived from laws of the cosmos and all beings in it and who use it in ways different from mankind makes for a much bigger picture.

sounds like ants are more logical than us... (bees also)