3bob

Aussie Trees, The Tao Teh Ching is an excellent pointer for the real I....there are many others. I'd say rebirth is or can be a complex "if, and, or but" exercise and will take care of itself if or when the main points are taken care of. If you are familiar with Buddhist teachings I suggest looking at the Tibetan wheel of life to see if there is a depiction of real 'I'. I'm not a Buddhist so that would only be my attempted and comparative way to look at it. (my interpretation is that a Buddha is not worried about the different realms as long as a Buddha is not lost in or to different realms, - where a birth could take place)

TI, Per core Buddhist teachings you have been refuted by the historic Buddha himself if you proclaim and stand by teachings counter to His, which Christianity and Hinduism do, ...and that is only two examples. Thus you have created a TI school for yourself - and neither you nor anyone else can represent a traditional school if they are not part of such lineages or ways and can not honestly claim to be speaking for them even with mountains of good quotes that are borrowed to make it sound like it) That is an obvious fact that can not be glossed over or denied per a "new age" like mash up. You are being facetious and presumptuous, beer or no beer, side swipe or no side swipe. Btw, I don't care if you wan to run a TI school just be honest about it.

Ti, while you are at and speaking as expert about all this stuff I suggest you make up your mind, is it going to be Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Taoist or what? I have no problem with us making some common ground correlations and showing some appreciation for the diversity of those paths is one thing, but claiming or sounding like one is an advanced authority on all of them beyond said common ground is counter to all of them.

As long as you are a fair anarchist it should not matter, go for it

I thought neutrino meant neutral in some way, not an eletron, proton or even a metaron? Whereas Torino or Gran Torino is along different lines. Btw, how long have you guys had those little plus marks next your title of steward, and what do they mean?

so shall coin the term 'veroun'? (although that doesn't sound as sexy as a neutrino)

yeah, although not of the type of noun (or thing) that can be nailed down in the same way as others . Chapter 25 also alludes to both verb and noun like meanings.

Well RT - you may have to settle for mango or those gogi berries in your pancakes along with that super honey from the mountain bees of Nepal, seems those would do..

already, does your last post sound incongruent if you read it as an impartial observer?

RT, how about a blue berry pancake with real maple syrup?

hey already, An avatar like yours caught my eye in here.. Anyway, What I learned from a great master is that if a "great master" has designs of his own then is not a great master... thus a great master will speak or not speak per the designs or way of Tao or Spirit. (whether to or not to - a child, a fool, a saint, a dog, a criminal, a god, or any other type of being)

if you were an alien in space and picked up an old TV broadcast of Hitler smiling at and playing with his German Shepard's you might think he was a nice guy....

"what's the big deal" is part of what I'm exploring or commenting on along with others. Many are at this website looking into gaining or sharing some kind enlightenment meaning and or in reducing suffering, how about you BD ?

Hi Aussie Trees, I have no problem with rebirth - as long as the I is real - all the rest is secondary.

I like the concept of a Dance going on at the nexus and or pivot point of say - no-thing and some-thing -, similar to the Tai-chi symbol that alludes to the dance of yin and yang... yet this dancer can never rest unless they go fast enough to be standing still.

Dawei, I'm not looking for a particular nothing (lol) but I don't mind whatever pops out of the bushes...

umm, I'd say that even the process of obscured and un-obscured is only apparent or relative in apparent or relative worlds. The reasoning mind wants to know why but there is no definitive answer for it other than something like, "if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger" - yet stronger than what? Spirit will never be stronger, wiser or better than what it already is nor less than that - so why go through an apparent or relative process of obscured and un-obscured? It seems the purpose is to gain a matrix for Spirits manifestation in time and space but even the gain of such a matrix is also lost in time and space, thus the big picture still boils down to no over-all gain or loss.

how much rope does mankind get or get to make to hang itself and other life-forms, before "that which is against the Tao soon ceases to be"? And where does that which "soon ceases to be" go since it to is within the One? Btw, I like the idea of turning that hanging rope into a saving rope.

Yeah, I could see anarchy (with the golden rule aspect) being workable if all parties were close to being equal in most ways... but things do get rather complicated with human beings! (like and considering limited resources, expansion of population, roles for individuals and groups, climate conditions, many beliefs and cultures, etc..)

Hello MH, Many native/tribal people who once lived or presently live in natural areas had or have troubles following the #1 rule or ethic that you mentioned above - so I wonder what kind of success earlier and or present day anarchists have had in doing so considering most of them live under some type of government? (unless they are living in a semi invisible (off the grid) type of isolation that may or may not be right in the midst of the everything going on) Meaning its pretty hard to not be under the laws or rules of the land, at least to some extent even if one mostly off the grid.

I'd be interested in seeing many of what are called the safe or generic mantra's (in alphabetical order) translated along with them being given a short background history related to their spiritual meaning, sect and or cultural sub-divisional usages. Also with them being given in the order of "Hindu" related forms first, then perhaps those which may have cross-over usage among different ways. Thank you and or others for such submissions

I don't see much reason or logic in either atheism or religious fanaticism, I do see variations of agnosticism as being very reasonable and logical in their nature. Btw, I also see any form of anarchy that is against the Tao (with Tao being a "natural" authority) as that which "will soon cease to be"...

no quotations marks there per-se although I can see some stretch marks

...besides good and evil is the main game in town and almost everyone has to paly... which in a way seems a form of evil itself yet if it doesn't kill you it could make you stronger. There is also a way out which is beyond good and evil but it's not so commonly known which is why some say billions of us are on a battlefield between good and evil.

the op also brings into question the meaning and action of often used term of "free will" ... I'd say will is completely relative at completely variable levels up to a point.. thus not really a "free" and totally independent will; A sort of exception would be for a being to have a definite choice or will to choose their response to the situations they are in, which is not the same as having a free will or being-ness that is independent of and unaffected by such situations...for if that was the case there would be quadrillions of independent and equally "Great" Tao's running around and or against each other whenever it suited their independent and unconnected Ways.