3bob

True guru/True Self is beyond limits of mind and thoughts also there is a point of no return or a no falling back to samsara after ego death... (which is why such is very rare among us) In other words Truth fully realized in every cell of being can no longer be lost to a lie tucked away somewhere in a remaining cell of egotism. Btw, did the historic Buddha attain that? Such is only known to Him and those of equal attainment, all the rest on the subject is mostly if not complete speculation.

true guru is true Self, true Self works through True guru... Many powers can be become twisted, (for instance 3rd eye) but true guru of true Self can not become twisted. true guru works for Spirit, including both for the letter of the spiritual law and for the spiritual compassion of spiritual law, to do otherwise is not of true guru, a true guru knows they can do nothing without Spirit for they have fully joined the ocean of spirit without resistance or interference from ego, thus their human self is a matrix for Spirit yet their identity is of the ocean of Spirit, Jai Sat Guru

actually the speed of light is very slow when it comes to the crossing the ocean of light at Godspeed.

"You say that you love rain, but you open your umbrella when it rains... You say that you love the sun, but you find a shadow spot when the sun shines... You say that you love the wind, But you close your windows when wind blows... This is why I am afraid; You say that you love me too..."

life can turn on a dime in a New York minute, but the pivotal scope and speed of Jesus can be much greater than those!

turning the other cheek takes a great warrior, leading from behind per the TTC takes a great leader, otherwise such measures can be misguided and idealistic, thus failing.

Jesus has often been dubiously co-opted by every tom, dick and harry to come down the pike for the last couple thousand of years.... but he is the real deal, alive and well, warm and compassionate, and can be reached beyond all that nasty co-opting that has been brought up and or carried out per fanatics which have given so many of us reason to doubt his existence as a "golden" immortal of great kindness and goodness of soul. Om

man's time on this planet is limited, then she will have it back to herself

no way

if we had conversations like these in Saudi Arabia and certain other places what it would mean - being whipped to bloody hell and then shipped out or prison and torture along with having our heads cut off? Should we be afraid to talk about such possibilities while also thinking we are being politically correct by remaining silent?

....and of course there are different sects of Islam so they can not all be lumped together.... but this thread started out with a report about the variation used by the Saudi's - (which the op was edited to reflect) Btw, here is some more info from wikipedia about this sect which has a lot of differences compared to the legal system that the US and other countries have: "Main article: Legal system of Saudi Arabia See also: Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia and Public executions in Saudi Arabia Verses from the Quran. The Quran is the official constitution of the country and a primary source of law. Saudi Arabia is unique in enshrining a religious text as a political document. The primary source of law is the Islamic Sharia derived from the teachings of the Qu'ran and the Sunnah (the traditions of the Prophet). Saudi Arabia is unique among modern Muslim states in that Sharia is not codified and there is no system of judicial precedent, giving judges the power to use independent legal reasoning to make a decision. Saudi judges tend to follow the principles of the Hanbali school of jurisprudence (or fiqh) found in pre-modern texts and noted for its literalist interpretation of the Qu'ran and hadith. Because the judge is empowered to disregard previous judgments (either his own or of other judges) and may apply his personal interpretation of Sharia to any particular case, divergent judgement arise even in apparently identical cases, making predictability of legal interpretation difficult. The Sharia court system constitutes the basic judiciary of Saudi Arabia and its judges (qadi) and lawyers form part of the ulema, the country's Islamic scholars. Royal decrees are the other main source of law; but are referred to as regulations rather than laws because they are subordinate to the Sharia. Royal decrees supplement Sharia in areas such as labor, commercial and corporate law. Additionally, traditional tribal law and custom remain significant. Extra-Sharia government tribunals usually handle disputes relating to specific royal decrees. Final appeal from both Sharia courts and government tribunals is to the King and all courts and tribunals follow Sharia rules of evidence and procedure. The Saudi system of justice has been criticized for its "ultra-puritanical judges", who are often harsh in their sentencing, (with beheading for the crime of witchcraft), but also sometimes overly lenient, (for cases of rape or wife-beating), and slow, for example leaving thousands of abandoned women unable to secure a divorce. The system has also been criticized for being arcane, lacking in some of the safeguards of justice, and unable to deal with the modern world. In 2007, King Abdullah issued royal decrees reforming the judiciary and creating a new court system, and, in 2009, the King made a number of significant changes to the judiciary's personnel at the most senior level by bringing in a younger generation. Deera Square, central Riyadh. Known locally as "Chop-chop square", it is the location of public beheadings. Capital and physical punishments imposed by Saudi courts, such as beheading, stoning (to death), amputation, crucifixion and lashing, as well as the sheer number of executions have been strongly criticized. The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, stoning or firing squad, followed by crucifixion. The 345 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 were all carried out by public beheading. The last reported execution for sorcery took place in September 2014. Although repeated theft can be punishable by amputation of the right hand, only one instance of judicial amputation was reported between 2007 and 2010. Homosexual acts are punishable by flogging or death. Atheism or "calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based" is considered a terrorist crime. Lashings are a common form of punishment and are often imposed for offences against religion and public morality such as drinking alcohol and neglect of prayer and fasting obligations. Retaliatory punishments, or Qisas, are practised: for instance, an eye can be surgically removed at the insistence of a victim who lost his own eye. Families of someone unlawfully killed can choose between demanding the death penalty or granting clemency in return for a payment of diyya (blood money), by the perpetrator. Main article: Human rights in Saudi Arabia In 2014, Saudi Arabian writer Raif Badawi was sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1000 lashes for insulting Islam. Western-based organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch condemn both the Saudi criminal justice system and its severe punishments. There are no jury trials in Saudi Arabia and courts observe few formalities. Human Rights Watch, in a 2008 report, noted that a criminal procedure code had been introduced for the first time in 2002, but it lacked some basic protections and, in any case, had been routinely ignored by judges. Those arrested are often not informed of the crime of which they are accused or given access to a lawyer and are subject to abusive treatment and torture if they do not confess. At trial, there is a presumption of guilt and the accused is often unable to examine witnesses and evidence or present a legal defense. Most trials are held in secret. An example of sentencing is that UK pensioner and cancer victim Karl Andree, aged 74, faces 360 lashes for home brewing alcohol. His family fears the punishment could kill him. Saudi Arabia is widely accused of having one of the worst human rights records in the world. Human rights issues that have attracted strong criticism include the extremely disadvantaged position of women (see Women below), capital punishment for homosexuality, religious discrimination, the lack of religious freedom and the activities of the religious police (see Religion below). Between 1996 and 2000, Saudi Arabia acceded to four UN human rights conventions and, in 2004, the government approved the establishment of the National Society for Human Rights (NSHR), staffed by government employees, to monitor their implementation. To date, the activities of the NSHR have been limited and doubts remain over its neutrality and independence. Saudi Arabia remains one of the very few countries in the world not to accept the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In response to the continuing criticism of its human rights record, the Saudi government points to the special Islamic character of the country, and asserts that this justifies a different social and political order. The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom had unsuccessfully urged President Barack Obama to raise human rights concerns with King Abdullah on his March 2014 visit to the Kingdom especially the imprisonments of Sultan Hamid Marzooq al-Enezi, Saud Falih Awad al-Enezi, and Raif Badawi. Saudi Arabia also conducts dozens of executions each year, mainly for murder and drug smuggling, although there are people who have been executed for deserting Islam and crimes against the Faisal bin Musaid. The method of execution is normally beheading in public. For example, Ali Mohammed Baqir al-Nimr was arrested in 2012 when he was 17 years old for taking part in an anti-government protests in Saudi Arabia during the Arab Spring. In May 2014, Ali al-Nimr was sentenced to be publicly beheaded and crucified. In 2013, the government deported thousands of non-Saudis, many of them who were working illegally in the country or had overstayed their visas. Many reports abound, of foreigner workers being tortured either by employers or others. This resulted in many basic services suffering from a lack of workers, as many Saudi Arabian citizens are not keen on working in blue collar jobs. Saudi Arabia has a "Counter-Radicalization Program" the purpose of which is to "combat the spread and appeal of extremist ideologies among the general populous" and to "instill the true values of the Islamic faith, such as tolerance and moderation." This "tolerance and moderation" has been called into question by the Baltimore Sun, based on the reports from Amnesty International regarding Raif Badawi, and in the case of a man from Hafr al-Batin sentenced to death for rejecting Islam. In September 2015, Faisal bin Hassan Trad, Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the UN in Geneva, has been elected Chair of the United Nations Human Rights Council panel that appoints independent experts.

no bait just a recorded fact without hearsay and as spoken by those who decreed it... Btw, "how many times can a man turn his and pretend he just doesn't see, the answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind"

yea lerner, but it is insane that the middle class who are struggling just to do ok have to pay for all of the various presidents vacation trips to Maine, Hawaii, Texas and wherever else they may happen to be from - at the tune of multi-millions of dollars for the cost of Air Force One double flights and the manpower involved !! (and that is just one very tiny example out of the thousands of uncontrolled and corrupt forms of waste that the US government is committing with our tax money!)

ok, and we come back to that saying in the TTC. which I recently brought up namely, "that which is against Tao soon ceases to be" but as we know from history that which is against Tao does not completely cease - for it only recedes before that which is with Tao - thus it could be said to remain in waiting for it's next opportunity - being that for hell (as that which is against Tao) to cease, "heaven" as that which follows the ways of Tao (per the TTC). would also end up ceasing. (leaving only Tao without its manifest permutations)

Happy Christmas, Joy to the world

Sung by Celine Dion:

twisted forms of fear can link-up with hate... and hate follows the pull of hell. btw, "Heaven follows the way of Tao", TTC 25

anger well directed is not hatred, for hatred goes hand in hand with rage which is an uncontrolled and unreasoning beast and becoming a portal for that never goes well for either party.

One may wonder how many millions or billions of years that "will soon cease to be" entails? or as brought up in another thread - is indirectly part of the process of Tao? ...btw, at the end of the cosmic cycle (with total cosmic dissolution) such becomes a moot point anyway, along with such a "soon" being a long and short ways off - like half an eye-blink of Tao. your take?

ah a relative accident, since how could there be anything that is 100% accident?

I see "un-manifest potential" as such an "opportunity", whereas what I meant before was more like willful chaos or anti-Tao that Tao does not nip in the bud even though the T.T.C. says, "that which is against Tao will soon cease to be" considering such a "that" is apparently in force during the entire cosmic cycle in one way or another and thus does not soon cease to be in principle or in action.

well there is also the idea that without some kind of order chaos would have nipped any kind of order in the bud long before it ever came into effect...

nice video, had to turn sound down after a while

it's off topic but it was kind of sad to me that my daughters had to grow up so fast under various forms of peer pressure, thus they didn't have much time to enjoy just being kids... whereas a lot of boys tend to have more time to enjoy being kids - heck even grown men often have more time to enjoy being kid like.

if you get in the zone while washing the dishes no harm will come to you, plus there is the benefit of the dishes getting done. (and that is an example of meditation besides some of the hocus-pocus stuff out there that can get you in trouble)