3bob

S.O.G., I remember that false prophet being that I was a child of the 60's myself.

yea Karl anyone can do what they want to do and then maybe land in the slammer, see their kids in custody of the state and maybe themselves standing in the soup lines at the local holy roller missions... but in a way I agree with you, although such an idea taken out of context of worldly needs and issues and certain other things that have to be dealt with realistically is something a person with no commitment's or responsibilities does - aka a slacker who is often living on or off someone else's dime.

This is of a tangent but one might ask when does a powerful enough mixture of self-defense (physical and mental) start to reduce the need for an offense that in effect also results as defense but also adds some extra umph to it....? For instance I took some Tae Kwan do lessons but after I heard the instructors often talking about, "one kick, one kill" as a general rule of thumb such caused me to lose interest because I was not in agreement with that idea since to me varying situations have varying needs. As an alternative I found the Akido philosophy more in line with well rounded justice since one turns an attackers force and imbalance against them while staying centered, thus seldom giving out an extra offensive thumping on top of a situation if or when an attacker is disabled. (unless such is truly needed)

The world of mankind is rife with injustice... and one may wonder why a greater universe would allow such injustices? (or does it?) And in what way can universal justice (which includes personal justice) be had in the world along with it being tended to without the commission of some form of violence when such reckoning needs to take place? (btw, who is wise enough to commit detached violence in the name of true justice without error?)

Meditation in Affliction Gyalwa Longchenpa Assailed by afflictions, we discover Dharma And find the way to liberation. Thank you, evil forces! When sorrows invade the mind, we discover Dharma And find lasting happiness. Thank you, sorrows! Through harm caused by spirits we discover Dharma And find fearlessness. Thank you, ghosts and demons! Through people's hate we discover Dharma And find benefits and happiness. Thank you, those who hate us! Through cruel adversity, we discover Dharma And find the unchanging way. Thank you, adversity! Through being impelled to by others, we discover Dharma And find the essential meaning. Thank you, all who drive us on! We dedicate our merit to you all, to repay your kindness

in the end we all have the same destiny so why get choosy about a particular one that is passing? Btw, what is "nature" doing to solar and galactic ecosystems compared to us humans, she is blowing up stars - making black holes burning and freezing up planets - etc., etc., which makes what is going on here on earth look like far less than a single grain of sand changing its condition in comparison and magnitude to what is happening in just a small part of our galaxy. (which doesn't mean what is happening here is not important on its own scale)

"Alas, this human layer is a cancer to these ecosystems, and those who are sincere and good, are still nurturing and supporting this human layer, and sustaining the unsustainable." What a strange and generalized statement of B.S. from a normally mellow poster? Sure there is an age old war going on with the demons and such will continue until the Earth reaches the next major level of vibration - partly through human evolution which in no way means humans per-se are a cancer to their mother who knows all to well what is going on. Btw, I assume you know that there are things like "natural" hydrogen sulfide releases all over the planet and in the oceans that kill most forms of life and their ecosystems almost instantly... strange that a mother would be killing parts of herself unless we humans didn't really know all that well as to what is going on?

the electrons are fairly close yet light years away...if one is picky

yep, all bets are off for most of "us", "them" and everybody until sometime between 0100 and 2400 today, tomorrow, maybe almost forever and or depending upon reflections of yesterday...

Stosh, Good point about the 100% since it can not be attained in any dualistic way which naturally includes room for doubt, thus it boils down to the 100% coming upon the 100% without any room for doubt, yet even that 100% knows it can not prove itself to anyone else along with an inner knowing that it would be a type of crime to attempt or force such.

ok, I never thought of that one - did you get any unexpected e-mails that you don't want to share ( ) lol....

Hey MH what happened to the rose? (although I also like King Kong)

Stosh, Digging deeper the assumptions and stereotypes begin with what the word "God" means to "us" and to "them" which I'd say ranges all over the map from a-z, even if I used a Bible context which still does not eliminate an a-z range of interpretation depending on if one is working from a fanatical or cosmic consciousness state..... I do like your statement along the lines about keeping the verdict suspended, which in many cases would probably be an honest option to apply to "us" and to "them" since most of "us" and "them" really don't have the experience or personal proof that satisfies 100% one way or the other. MH, As far as starting the "fire" that was meant to allude to going back to the cosmic "big bang" (if one will) which as far as can be ascertained no human being started that.

lots to assume but much more to find out - we didn't start the fire but it sure is burning...

Here is another take Bud, Joy does not come by will alone, "but by every word that comes from the mouth of God" (aka - Grace) otherwise every willful being in the universe would hoard Joy as if it were their private possession. Btw, one can not have this world and eat it to, (so to speak) thus there are only a tiny handful of realized and Joyful Buddha's walking around (as you imply) who btw. are not householders and thus actually or in effect beg for food and need other types of serious support to live in this worldly world which they have renounced.

Solomon spoke of the "Vanity of vanities" yet in the end he reached a much deeper summation than just that of, "dust to dust". In one line of the Bible it was written, "there is nothing new under the sun", yet that evolves to, "behold I make all things new" ! "Truth" as the indestructible element has no equal or worry about Its own truth, and in that sense It makes perfect sense from the sub-atomic to the cosmic and beyond.

and what if you took all the projected points and related arguments you've brought up and turned them on yourself without bias?

Karl, I'd say you just hit on a very important point in your response above but probably didn't mean to (?) namely with your words of "no sound", so I suggest considering that point along the lines of how can sound exist without no sound in sense of very well defined spaces or timings of no sound between myriad variations of notes, otherwise there would be no distinct sounds or music (and in a way try to extrapolate that to mind and no-mind without taking the "no" to literally just as some people sometimes take the words "empty" and "nothing" to literally)

Nick, your ego trip about being beyond Karl is getting rather ripe, I suggest getting off it -

perhaps preparation like being a lion clothed in sheep skin to meet with a wolf face to face or having an iron hand inside in a silk glove to back up your handshake...

Anyway, back to the first post again... It has dangers does it not, for if misapplied in an only idealistic way I think one could get into trouble without advanced preparation along with a certain level of experience and protection to make such a transmutation hold up, otherwise one could just be run over without attaining the fruit of the saying.

Karl, you are wrong concerning the meaning and use of Koans, which is logical but only in your case and not as a truism or generalization.

Zerostao, The use of the word dimensions was for an analogy, - as to how many dimensions (?) well that can be extrapolated in various ways and is not the same in all systems yet points to a similar idea among them.

Spotless, I made the earlier correlation with your use of of the word "geometry" in relation to Mr. O. laying out information about the speed of "impressions", which I believe also has some correlation with the word, "quickening", both in terms of it taking place with our physical bodies and also our souls. ...not unlike the idea of mathematically squaring a number and then squaring the result again and again giving a very rapid increase in count.

partly depends on far one is willing to have their mind blown and let go of seemingly safe constructs... Koans are along that line, for instance: "what is the sound of one hand clapping?"