3bob

ok on the quote which is in line with Vedic descriptions - and which is obviously not Buddhist or what many profess what Buddhism points to - as it seems you meant to reference ? -

it is well that liberation/enlightenment (in a Buddhist, Taoist or Hindu context) can not really be defined like a seemingly solid thing can, although same can also and more or less be pointed towards along the lines of what it is not...

TI, I'd say the sentence, "Buddhas cannot communicate liberation into the minds of others" at least has term problems being that liberation will never be had or possible in the "mind" as known from certain realizations anyway... thus differences in the meaning of the term mind need to be agreed upon for the sake of a clear argument..

I'm not used to straight up agreement Infolad1 so thanks, I think ! (btw, some of the terms and placement of same in my text above could be better or changed but I think the drift of it is there)

it's more of mystery as to how even stones may sing yet man may be mute...

Hmm, here's another plain as day:: Matthew 6:22-23 - The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

what it means Karl is that its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a strange duck to lay a good egg.

even if a modern day science related masterpiece was written to try to explain and point to ultimate Truth by using the most exacting words or text possible (without metaphor or allegory) such would still effectively be some unreachable, non-understandable thing to most or many (not unlike the T.T.C. is to many of us westerners) unless the one reading and or hearing could really see and hear... thus the parables in the Bible don't and cant' really hide any secrets or secret knowledge, since it's all in plain sight but our perception is veiled.

I have not read the entire string, thus I'm kind of dropping in with my take on the subject... Anyway: since "The One" is born (per the T.T.C.) The One shall also die - thus it is not immortal...(although repeating eternally in its birth and death) having said that all beings existing in and self-identified as a particular someone, somewhere within the One will also die, whether they last for 115 years, many millions of years or even if they maintain godlike for an entire cosmic life cycle... they would still "die" so to speak along with the One since they are limited under the realm of the One... (which includes all realms of all time, all space and all form which may not sound very limited but such is still not final return or freedom) Btw, the historic Buddha pointed this out in well known Buddhist doctrine with him saying (paraphrased) that he could have remained (as a particular being) for the entire or great cosmic cycle, although that didn't happen for certain reasons. ....to go beyond that a soul can no longer keep identification as a particular being or form (including a pure light form) since only the "Tao" exists as the deepest identity then and that realization of Tao by Tao has no problems with same.

any person with some understanding of the gods and devas has zero problem with so called idols per-se, although there may be differences in opinion concerning the rankings

Bindi, you may want to try a concept along the lines of all time, and all space, all at once, thus in such a sense there is no-where where "God" as creation is not at, at any time... or the "One" thing which is also the limit of all mind or the mind of Christ if you will, as a working between Alfa and Omega or the first and the last. Beyond that - mind in its totality can not reach, yet if not for "no-thing" that is beyond mind there would be nothing. (but I think that is really getting ahead of the game for 99.9999% of us)

ancient yet also at this moment...

get the hell off it and leave Christians free of all your crap...

many record players have the little synchro light that stays steady when one hits 33 rpm's, but if rpm's go higher or lower the synchro is out and the light is no longer steady... extrapolate as you will.

GP, on the other side of the pond some of us would rightly say that is like making the bombing of London by Hitler equal to some teenager pranks made by the boys that live next door!! (thus B.S.)

"....Then the motion he noticed rose from its depth it was the movement of spirit it floated and leapt..." Indeed, it leaps and springs in Joy without sorrow 1. "For him who sees this, reflects on this and understands this, the prana springs from the Self, hope springs from the Self, memory springs from the Self, the akasa springs from the Self, fire springs from the Self; water springs from the Self; appearance and disappearance spring from the Self, food springs from the Self, strength springs from the Self; understanding springs from the Self, meditation springs from the Self, consideration springs from the Self, will springs from the Self; mind springs from the Self speech springs from the Self, the name springs from the Self the sacred hymns spring from the Self the sacrifices spring from the Self—ay, all this springs from the Self." Chandogya, Chapter XXVI — Self—knowledge

we start where we are at, and a very big chunk of that is in our daily life and dealing with people and the world around us in the best way possible, thus if we do all the so called small things that may not seem so important then all the big things will begin to fall into place or follow suit so to speak... help along the way is important and certain changes are not easy but if one keeps their concentration on their own business or practice whatever it may be then that will also create motive and willpower to keep at it and or strike out in a new way.

tools of logic and reason are fine for items that they can be applied to deductively and comparatively (etc..) but not to that which they can not be applied to, one without a full measure of logic and reason is blind to that simple fact.

There are many forms of hate in our world, granted in the endgame hatred loses the war and "everything will be all right" but right now and in the meantime so many of us are loosing in so many ways .... so what to do at this point of the war? I've been doing the "duck and cover" since the 3rd grade with the threat of M.A.D. and all sorts of other stuff that is going on and it's getting real old... "we didn't start the fire" but it sure is burning. It's great that the true Self is not touched, hurt by, or attached to any of this worldly stuff but everything else is and that on going amount of suffering is getting real old also. Does the entire cosmos have to end - to end the forms of suffering for the unenlightened within it? Btw, if certain of the public or private enlightened types are not also suffering for those less fortunate than them then they are fakes imo.

We could expand the "whole world idea" to the whole cosmos or all of space and time...and the endgame of such is that Tao wins so to speak, not anti-Tao which has no root - for "what is against Tao will soon cease to be". (excerpt from the T.T.C. 30) Love is also a two edged sword of relentless truth or along the lines of extra "tough love" besides types of warm or nurturing love. For instance Gandhi loved all peoples but he stood firm against racial and religious hatred, forms of oppression, suppression, unfairness, etc. etc... He became a rock for justice and without justice love in its greatness as you imply is not understood or realized.

touché...

Well Karl I'm somewhat familiar with the 'neo' this and that of where it sounds like you are coming from, btw I could pick apart your sentences with your own modus-operandi or types of devices but I'm not that interested in doing so, besides I'm short on time a lot of the time. (conventionally speaking if you will) Apparently you've read some of this and that and know some jargon as evident in your text but it escapes me as to why in the world you would want to change anybody's mind about anything along the lines of proof that we know can not be proved, example no one can prove or disprove God to another, and trying to do so would be at least a futile exercise.

yea, people having great types of mind power can be mistaken for being spiritually minded which is a very foolish assumption being that demons also have such powers and are not spiritually minded...

Better to be free than enslaved, and if that means death of the body although not death of honor in soul or spirit as some inter-change the terms, then so be it... And yes, some may go underground or out of sight to survive and thus fight another day but even then it will still come back to facing what is said in the first sentence being that "another day" will arrive in war, so in the end there is no way to get around it. Also and if out of fear of death one joins or becomes the enslaver that they would have been free of then the game is over for they have died in essence. (just like the Nazi puppets did who turned against their own people instead of fighting for the resistance)

Karl, You got it all wrong, (per your own mental tricks) if such turns your crank and gets you down the road somewhere. Good luck.