3bob

Thanks for the input Bud, I'd present another way of considering thought: Energy of now is flowing through a thought now, thus that thought is also more or less now per the energy flow, and the stronger the energy within that thought the easier it is to manifest quickly to almost instantly... Btw, my Bud light is not an illusion, nor do I have a love or hate thought about it unless it is hot, btw its' hard but one could follow its origin back to the first beer, like to Lemuria

It's a tricky business becoming a relentless killer based on spiritual compassion and wisdom, one of the reasons I've always had trouble with the battlefield where Krishna is giving out advice along such lines...

lerner, I appreciate the thought yet I think you also know (and as you imply) that once one confronts a major enough force then the battle is never over, and if you lose then the only bringer of "peace" is death, not unlike when the American Indians said, "it's a good day to die". (not being in fear of death but in fear of personal coward-ness and also enslavement of their people)

Who is enlightened ? "Find that one." thus the same kind of mental deal going on as in your example. Btw, only the Self knows the Self and not some mental rumination or talking head that is echoing on about it, although echo's can and do have their place and uses, also an echo in first connection to the first drum has cosmic power and truth at that level.

Did the historic Buddha hate creation and thus hang up his hat and quit the play early? I wouldn't put it that way since he played and finished his part nobly and thus earned his exit from the stage. Cobi, I don't like manipulation, btw karma is just - no hate in that.

Karl, Thanks for the review of concepts and your feedback, those are things I've known of for many decades including the truth of transcendent Self that is already perfect, (as pointed to in the Upanishads) yet I'm still getting tired of the forced play being run with it's nearly endless episodes of good and evil forces along with all of us creatures (so to speak) being more or less caught between the acts and actions of same. And yes, leaving a fine stepping stone is a noble thing to do for what else is there to do - really, and doing so as a good "knight" does make a difference to those suffering in the production, so I guess I'm having some trouble with the writer, director and producer.

police protocols that lead to escalation of further violence are not helping matters one bit... Like the story of the over the top cop body slamming the old Indian man into the ground and partially paralyzing him as he was just walking down the street of his sons neighborhood minding his own business and who happened to have a poor understanding of English when the cop proceeded to accost him, instead of the cop taking rational, step by step actions to deal with a situation that did not call for that amount of force! (thus giving or helping to give good cops a bad rep) It is also insane to me for any cop to think that they can body slam people to the ground or concrete (especially in a non-dangerous situation) and then stick their knee into that persons neck or spine and believe that that person should not move in any way through some form of purely instinctive self-defense!

and what about a spin off along these lines for Carlos Castaneda and his books?

He who is an Ocean can be trusted with water.

An aspect of this string is what do we learn of our own potential for evil? (or reflections on our past evil and actual deeds) One thing I'd say is that we don't always need to go to extremes to learn of such, or to always learn the hardest way! A physical analogy being that we don't need to get our arm cut off if we can learn from getting a much smaller cut to our hand, very simple and obvious but such extremes happen all the time to people. An interesting thing in a way is that no body gets away with anything forever. Btw, karma is exacting to the penny yet grace can not be bought or sold for any price!

True nature can not break true dharma, True nature can not be corrupted nature... thus all the variations out there are more or less caught up in the mental or astral and physical realms, whereas True nature is free of binding per such.

Following Dharma for human beings can lead to finding release from suffering...., if you want to refer to the laws of the "jungle" for mankind then that makes karma and more cycles of bondage; for single bacteria which are solely bound to evolution they don't yet have the potential or enough development to know freedom from being a bacteria - compared to how a human being might or has great potential to become free.

one man's wrong thinking is another man's right thinking but True dharma doesn't depend on what men think, thus its laws are beyond only or just the ways or laws of mankind... also dharma is impartial but not indifferent just as "mother nature" is impartial but not indifferent. Further perception is only one part of the formula since the whole package is needed so to speak.

a half truth is mixed with a half lie, and half the battle is seeing that to take a full stand against it.

what the hell, I don't cuss... (much) Learner, It sounds that you mean well and are trying to take or make the best out of a bad situation which I see as admirable in a way. As for myself I can't make or give that much leeway to anything Osho tried to pull off or to the people still around who are still trying to pull off Osho stuff with or in his name.

What, is Osho's sick twisted-ness rubbing off on you learner ? Strange since you mostly seem the mellow type to me.

to be broken with broken dharma is objective like suffering that perception alone can't do much for excepting to help switch to a fighting mode of not only perception but also action against broken dharma which would then be turning things to an objective like pleasure, a.k.a "marching through hell for a heavenly cause" although some Buddhists may not dig such a comparison. (?)

so learner did you see the picture of his sweet girlfriend that killed herself? (besides the twisted genius stuff?)

besides the term "meditation" is a very abused one... for one could be deeply concentrated on and joyfully washing the dishes and that to would be a type of meditation - so buyer beware there are also some spooky or la-la land meditations that may be floating around along with the healthy and safe forms.

yes its a mankind problem but considering how so many high placed and powerful talking heads in the US constantly harp about human rights, I think this is even worse to be happening here...

what, try to be some kind of shrink?

then again if you think about it everything the historic Buddha did was for pleasure, pleasure that does not die... also called "wonder of wonders" by Him. (thus and ultimately pleasure is not a dirty word or something to feel Buddhist or any other form of religious distaste or avoidance type of guilt about)

forget most forms of meditation which can make matters worse, pray both aloud and softly with very deep intent, both in private and also with a close group, in part for pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps and in part for getting help - both seen and or unseen; for if one is like a corporal in faith and light one does not do so well in fighting a lieutenant of fear and darkness, thus said help is needed at that level until we become equal to the task... lieutenant to lieutenant so to speak.

Also and to some the Buddhist "Middle path" is an extreme - per or when dogmatic insistence about it is used along with subtly veiled or not subtly veiled one up-man-ship.

I'd add that it's a mistake to think we are going to reach enlightenment, bliss or whatever without going through a very tough and ultimate fight to the death. (of ego and fear) For as long as one is identified with any form of creation there is duality, and in duality there is always war of one kind or another - in heaven and hell, on earth and among mankind, among angels and demons, between virtue and non-virtue, etc...