ShaktiMama

She doesn't! Please let's not start THAT rumor. I apologize if my communication made you to think differently. What I meant was that both KAP and Sifu Jenny both tell their students to use shaking as part of preventative maintenance practice. S

Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson writes about it ih his medical qigong textbooks. They are characterized by behaviors of the elements. What is news? S

mike md, on 17 June 2012 - 04:45 PM, said: I thought this thread was dead, in case anybody's wondering yeah eventually I did feel my chakras and heat. It was after focusing on the centers in the head, funny it happened the very first time I focused on the crown for 30 secs but before that I tried to feel the root and there was no heat. After a few days the top of my head started burning spontaneously and I feel like there's molten liquid in my lumbar area going up, chest is on fire at night and my heart opened, now its in both the head and body but it's not through the neck yet, but I can feel heat up there. Kind of weird it's skipping around like that. My left body also warms up but not my right, also strange. Please see my response to your PM to me. Yes, these are active kundalini signs. S

I correct myself. These experiments were done in the 80s. And how does autonomous control become over-ridden in the thymus gland by an immune compromised HIV very sick patient with very low Killer t cell count who is too weak to think? Simple experiment: blood follows chi flow. Hands get very hot in temperature when energy healing is being done. I had thought to my PhD work on nitric oxide release as a vasodilator in the role of raising heat when chi was applied. Unfortunately, the protocols required to do in vitro/human experiments were too restrictive and time consuming. I am OK with your having problems with this, your disbelief. Give up your need to have proof and practice with a good teacher. Then you will have an empirical answer. It will be your own answer, not someone else's Good luck, S

Nope, I dont have super powers that is for sure. I am just an average human being who practices internal energy cultivation. Extraordinary claims are so subjective for sure. Breaking the 3 minute mile was one. Science does not have the tools yet to measure subtle energies or subtle bodies. Acupuncture and qigong are based on 5 thousand years of empirical investigation and practice. And yet, we in our belief in the superiority of modern science, poo poo it. I am not a jnanist. I am an empiricist. All beliefs even the statement: "Filling one with beliefs and superstitions is contrary to jnana," is a belief, a construct of the ego. This statement on that quote is a construct of the ego. Live without beliefs. Disengage the iron grip of the mind. S

This is only matters to people who don't have the skills to perceive. Science is far behind the validation of the processes of subtle energy and the subtle body. There is no money in it. Why study it? Practice internal energy cultivation and you will know and understand for your self whether it is true/subjective/whatever or not. I am not talking trying for a couple of hours. Get with an authentic program and teacher and practice. Old experiments from the 90s show measureable increase in killer T cell count in the blood after an energy healing treatment. Research therapuetic touch or healing touch if you want cites. When do people stop asking how and just do? The mind is hungry for proof. Not to disparage the intellect but waiting for proof may mean you miss the bus. The FDA does 20+ years of experiments to approve new drugs and treatments thru trials. People suffer and die while waiting. Why wait? I remember in the 90s that glucosamine was labeled a dangerous trend as a drug because there was no trials. Also no incentive to test because it is cheaply available. Now it is given to patients in the hospital in pill form as a supplement. So how long are you gonna wait until you feel confident to step out and practice?

Your welcome. A lot of esoteric knowledge is presented in that graphic. S

Experience. Training in internal energy cultivation skills. S

You can contact either Philip or Michael on the home page of his website about the book. I don't see it on the site like it used to be but you might ask if it is still available. Philip's english is a little better but he still speaks with a heavy accent. Michael, I believe, is in Toronto and is a native English speaker. Both are senior apprentices. Philip has been working with Master Jin for a thousand years it seems but Michael has a better understanding of Western ways and questions. Philip lives in Vancouver. At least that was current knowledge as of 2008. Noticeable differences: Dr. Morris's bias was more Taoist. Master Jin is a devout Buddhist. Prayers, lifestyle, and mantras were very important to him. Glenn was more of the rockstar type. LOL I think KAP cultivates sensitivity to chi and energy flow more quickly. This provides feedback quickly to the skeptical minds. It gives re-assurance to the new practitioner. (A few of my students are high level security clearance space engineers and they love this chi stuff. ) Both Master Jin and Glenn commented on how students wouldn't keep up with their practices/homework. Jin wanted people to practice even if it meant they practiced standing while watching TV. There is more reverence/deference for the teacher as primary guru in Jin's system. He was called "the Master" by all his students. Glenn was Glenn or Doc to his students. Some azz kissers would call Glenn the Grandmaster to his face, and he was, but that was not comfortable for him. Both wanted daily practice and daily meditation. Both had/have fierce martial arts skills. Both knew and used shamanic side of qigong, bon po, etc. I find kundalini~qigong is very complimentary in my experience and in talking with other teachers. Some don't like that at all. Both thought spontaneous shaking was to be cultivated as an essential part of the practices. I still use shaking in all my classes and personally. It is not as dramatic as it was in the beginning but to think one becomes totally free of blockages and will never need to shake or do shaking again is in error. My body still does jerking releases. It happens a lot when Santiago Dobles and I are around each other since we work on clearing the other. There is always a deeper level to go to for working. Death is the only thing that will stop it. Like Sifu Jenny Lamb, whom I adore and have learned from who lives local to me, myself, Glenn and Jin Fa have shaking as preventative maintenance practice. There are different types of shaking that go on. Shaking comes when there is pathological chi and experienced qigong practitioners can tell you what kind of pathology is in play by the type of shaking movement exhibited. Shaking/kriyas also result when energy is slamming up against a block in the body. When the block dissolves it is like taking boulders out of a rapids in a river. The flow becomes much smoother. Shaking also is preventative/maintenance that can or should be done on a daily basis as Sifu Jenny instructs and does KAP. It keeps the channels clean and lets the body correct itself with it's own adjustment. Yes, Glenn like Chia's work for the most part. But even all this discussion that Chia writes about happens spontaneously with a kundalini awakening as it did with me for example, without any instruction. Re: the video. That looks like how a session with Jin Fa works. Some contextual considerations. Energy doesn't move through tension. That would be tension held in the body, the spirit, the mind, the emotions, etc. Being with someone you trust puts one at ease so this energy can move easier and have a deeper effect. Taking someone off the street to do these things to may not work because we are working with subtle energies. There are some chi beasts out there who can do this without the receiver being prepared. Those are usually combat applications of chi. Santiago Dobles is a master of this. He can take people down before they even get one step away from standing without ever touching them. Master Jin and Glenn can do that too. I can do it a portion of the time but my energy is more of the healing/yin/the mother quality so it doesn't have that yang impact. But I know enough to disrupt energy flow through meridians to incapacitate people if they get too close. I have a lot of work to do on my combat skills. Just a babe there. Glenn was a master of Dim Mak and was known world wide in the combat martial arts world as "Dr. Death." Santi's skills are scary effective since he has added much of the hidden Sumatran and Indonesian Silat arts to his practice on top of what he learned from Glenn. Lately he has been doing intense study with Maha Guru Pendekar Suci Richard Crabbe de-Bordes from Ghana. That guy is effing scary in his Silat and has mad energy skills. Here's a vid of him teaching at Santi's school in March of this year. Here's an old vid of Santi teaching pushing and pulling with chi: for some reason my [/media] linking gets stripped out. Just a note: To be truly effective with Dim Mak one also has to be an exceptional healer and understand energy flows. Hope that helps

Yes, that is Grand Master Jin in the pic. Wonderful, sweet man from Shanghai. A walking chi beast who could knock a person over with a flick of a finger. He has written a book. It's very thick. I think it is in Cantonese. His english is pretty bad. It's also like $500 but from what I hear is filled with illustrations. He had shown me some mudras for protection and bliss. He has a few apprentices floating around. One of my students was being groomed to be his heir to his lineage but for some reasons it did not work out. He once told Glenn and I that our students were very advanced. He thought it was because we were not Chinese. LOL. He didn't realize it was from KAP practice and teaching. His comment was that our students picked up things easily. He was able to comment on this because all three of us team taught a kundalini-qigong intensive over a weekend a ways back. Jin Fa is a showman. We called him the Chinese James Brown. He just needed a cape to make the picture complete. Master Jin was very practical and down to earth. He wanted his students to progress to shaking from their standing process as soon as possible. The mind gets in the way of a good practice. He thought it very important that students also develop a sensitivity to feeling chi as a foundation. So do I and I think it is good to start with shaking as well as standing. So Jin Fa, Glenn and I, and other teachers believe a teacher in close proximity is real key. One must always be doing energy transfers into the student. This helps speed up the process, the assimilation of energy, and deepens understanding. It also gets the students into a healthier state of being. It is not just about form correction although I am surprised by how many advance practitioners don't get their arms rounded at the arm pits. Like holding a ball there. It keeps the chi flow from being cut off to the fingers. Since I can't be speaking from experience for I have never held one position for practice for three years in my life I can speak from observation and talking with others and studying. The truth is really doing anything with deep awareness will bring enlightenment. From my perspective, enlightenment has a biological component. It is not just mental. It must involve all of us. Do standing stake and be aware of the inner process happening with the three treasures of man: jing, chi, and shen. We want to build jing to convert to chi that then transforms to shen. It doesn't stop there but it is a start. Kundalini will rapidly accelerate these processes. We want to work with the lesser Kan and Li, the middle Kan and Li, the Upper or greater Kan and Li in the three Dantiens. I have also heard allusions to the Supreme Kan and Li. In plain terms we are talking about an internal alchemy process that mixes fire and water to create steam. We discussed this some on the Bums last year: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/19076-indian-vs-chinese-metaphysics/page__st__16 Standing stake is pretty generic but so powerful. I would progress through the three levels. It's hard not to focus on the jing aspect if one is practicing correctly because that comes up in your face right away. We found out how really weak we are quickly. That is not to say the other two treasures don't come up when we are focusing on the jing development. The three year plan is slower of course but can be more stable for a lot of people. My kundalini awakening was very dramatic and volatile. Dr. Menard told me if I had been his student and that happened he would have lost face because there was so much lack of control. But, to me, kundalini awakening is a messy and often out of control process. It can be hell for control freaks. LOL! Dr. Menard told me three years was important to the Chinese because they don't do crazy. It is thought that less than three years is unhealthy and unstable. This is a cultural bias and does not mean that it can't be different. It is different. To tell you any special refinements would be not so helpful because that is where face to face comes in. Relax, breathe, and let the energy move you and move through your body can be a lifetime practice but these are VERY important. Hope that helps some, Susan PS. Once Master Jin and I were teaching at an upstate NY Buddhist retreat center. We met in NYC and happened to go the 911 site. He sat down by the big hole (this was 2006) and starting chanting mantras/prayers with his prayer beads and doing mudras. It was like a hole opened up in the earth and all the souls who were lost in the ground started rising like radiant beams of light up into the sky. It was amazing to watch and to see this little man sitting and rocking back and forth as he was praying while all the people around him rushed about their business.

This the newest kindle fire. Itz fine for facebook...email...surfing and playing angry birds. That's about it. S

Hi vortex. I am writing on my mom's kindle and if that isnt a practice to develop equanimity I dont know what else could be. Grand Master Jin Fa of shaolin gong fu retired of Vancouver BC told me of this. Dr. Glenn Morris validated to me. Dr. Kevin Menard ying yi master and savate silver gloves champlon confirmed. Also a good yoga program will do the same per Harsha of Harsha's Satsang on the web. He said this in a group online convo in the early 90s . Other masters have cofirmed over the years but i remember these easier. As you know there are multiple layers to every movement and postures starting with the three treasures.. I can write more when i can access my laptop. This bites on the kindle .

We have no secrets. You are the one accusing us of having secrets and wanting to know secrets. Truth doesn't hide. One must have the eyes and ears to comprehend. There is a bicycle and there is a ferrari. It is an analogy about life. Nursery school kids do poorly in university. They are not specifically developed to handle the mental, physical, emotional, spiritual requirements of being in a university. One cannot do calculus before one learns simple mathematical operations. One cannot play college basketball when one can only roll a ball across the floor. One cannot eat meat before they have learned to drink milk. It is not a fault or a weakness of character. It just is. Teachers know this and will not teach more than one can absorb. Being unable to understand the knowledge given to you is not because it is a secret it is because one is incapable of understanding it without proper preparation and context. You want to go deep, practice deep. You offer nothing to show that you have a type of meaningful practice at all. Displaying an attitude of entitlement is a disease of this times. Work on developing equanimity. That is what others would call a secret. One can't advance very far without equanimity. This is a truth. I gave you already what some define as a secrets in my last two posts. I am not calling them secrets but others will because they have the understanding to see them. The giving of knowledge breeds a hunger for more knowledge. Knowledge is not the answer. What do you plan to do with this "secret" knowledge? Demanding to know because you feel you are entitled or have a right to know is not appropriate and will bring you nothing. It makes you look like a whiny, spoiled child. That is not equanimity. I can see your energy flaring up in your pelvic bowl from here means his k is awake. I can see it from here. I look. I have not practiced remote viewing. This ability is a result of my internal energy cultivation practice. This is a truth. Continuing to demand and justify your right to know anything you want, when you want will not create any traction or credibility with any qualified teacher. This post is filled with "secrets". Because I speak out of 20+ years of experience and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of training hours with master teachers, the words I speak hold secrets. Getting mad or sarcastic with me or any other teacher who says you are not properly prepared is like getting mad at someone because they don't speak your language. It is futile and useless and wastes energy. It is a demand of the ego. Think about if you would want to give something to someone who talks sh*t at you. This is just the way it is with teachers like us. If you feel like you are being manipulated, used, or excluded that's your personal problem that has nothing to do with us. This secret business is a dead issue to me and I have no further need to speak of it.

There are no secrets. Seth, Hundun and I will tell you there are none truly. I have given out "secret" knowledge to my students for years and they can't see it because they aren't ready. Then they come to me after 5 or 10 years after trying other systems and say, "now I understand. My apologies for not listening. It was here all along." There are many secrets dropped throughout Bums but people laugh and deride them and at those who speak when they are shared because the commentators lack understanding. To tell a seeker to step off a tricycle into a Ferrari without any intermediate training is foolish and futile and dangerous and irresponsible of the teachers. Will you lift a 200 pound weight when you can barely lift a weight that weighs 5 pounds? There is knowledge and then there is the acquiring of understanding. TBs often mistake them for the same thing. Here's a secret: Standing stake, practiced diligently for three years under the guidance of a master, will bring enlightenment. There are many, many layered secrets to be uncovered in that one statement that comes with the practice. There are many things that can only come with the face to face presence of a teacher. Learning on line is one thing. Learning in the physical presence of a teacher takes it to a whole different dimension. Don't let anybody tell you it is different. I do both. Knowledge is fast food. Understanding comes from preparation, buying the right ingredients and years of watchful instruction, perfect practice, and study before making the perfect nourishing delightful meal. It is an artistry acquired. Fortunately, one doesn't have to practice for 30 years before that info becomes available like in ancient times but shoveling it out like slop cafeteria style on someone's plate to whomever begs or tries to shame people into giving away "secrets" is not appropriate either. People go into cults because they want to acquire magical powers over their world, feel special, be loved, looking for a daddy replacement, make their ego feel big. There are many reasons. What do you want to do with these Big Secrets you think people are hiding from you? If this makes you so angry and sarcastic it would be best to develop equanimity first before you learn "big secrets". These big secrets can make you into a flaming azzhole because it pushes the ego to the surface in a exponential way. They are supposed to do that. Learning to respond to life with a mature equanimity will facilitate the understanding of Big Secrets. S

Been very busy IRL so I can only come through rarely. I have lightly read over this whole thread. Good on you, Mike! These are all wonderful signs of kundalini, she's a stirring things up in you. I must say Seth Ananda and Hundun would get my best recommendations if you wish to follow with them. (And Seth is absolutely right about what to talk about and what not to talk about. He has my whole hearted support on that.) I can see your energy flaring up in your pelvic bowl from here. Just need to get it smoothed out which using shaking whether it's the free styling form a la Brad Keeney or your run of the mill shaking qi gong practice both will be very beneficial. I use both. Also, an actual physical presence of a teacher who can put their hand on your shoulder and speak kind words to you of encouragement is irreplaceable. Always, when working with and cultivating internal energy keep your tongue up at the roof of your mouth behind the teeth. This connects the governor and conception energy channels (meridians) in the body and keeps one from getting "chi head," or chi stagnation in the skull. It helps the energy keep circulating. It's a must must must do. No excuses. A little of my own introduction...my kundalini started to awaken in 1991 and went full blown awakened in an extremely dramatic fashion all the way in 97. I have been teaching kundalini awakening, the process and how to thrive with it probably since 2000. I am one of the senior Kundalini Awakening Process instructors.I have taught in Canada, the US, and the UK on the kundalini awakening process by myself and with the Director of the Kundalini Awakening Process, Santiago Dobles. I also use to teach with Dr. Glenn Morris who was the originator of the process and some Bums are very familiar with his books. I also run a support group on yahoo for people who need help with their kundalini process. I have been running it since 2003. You are welcome and anyone else to come sit with us and tell your story. We have people from all different traditions and belief systems, even engineers and hard core scientists among our membership. The atmosphere is more family like and supportive. We have in common kundalini and to be supportive of each other no matter what our backgrounds are. We have rank newbies and very mature practitioners. We have tantric gurus, martial arts masters, and a doctor of medical qigong among our tribe. We also have a few Bums on the list. People get zapped with kundalini just from being present in the group or so members have told me. http://health.groups...SupportNetwork/ Although some people who are bipolar have kundalini awakening (I used to have a boyfriend who was so) bipolar is not kundalini awakening. I am not anti-meds. If you need them take them but look for away to get off them eventually if you can. The insomnia and agitation comes because kundalini kicks the adrenal glands into high gear and your sympathetic nervous system is going into overdrive. It is going into a sustained flight or fright state. Left unaddressed for too long and you will have some full on PTSD in the making. You also could be having panic attacks. Drink water because the tendency to become dehydrated and overheated is real. Also eat meat. In my opinion and experience, you need to feed the kundalini fire or it burns you instead. So anything that you know of that you do that activates the SNS, don't do. Do what activates the parasympathetic system instead. So for the PNS that is being in community,prayer, meditation, volunteer work, anything that helps with oxytocin release (like orgasm and cuddling) those kind of activities. If you are feeling over stimulated do something to burn off the adrenaline secretion. Just as an FYI, crazy intense running, especially the long distance type, is a meditational activity. It can be a trigger. In short, with knowledgeable and supportive guidance this can be a blissful and exquisite experience for you. Many blessings upon you, Susan **** quote removed at original poster's request ****

Sounds like you are right where you should be. Right on schedule. Shakti will unfold as she see fits. Your only job is to relax and let Shakti direct the journey. As long as you do the process keeps going. S

you made me spit my whiskey cheddar cheese bits all over the monitor, grrlfriend. What kind of cognitive dissonance land did you visit to create that hilarious mess? I am going to be laughing about that all day. I am busy teaching, training, and learning. Somethings have to slide a bit in priority and Bums is something that can eat up a lot of time. I come by now and then to see if I can be of assistance. much love to all....

He may not be secretive at all. Answering questions thoughtfully takes enormous amounts of time and energy. Make sure there is a beneficial energy exchange not just something that satisfies the inquirer's curiosity.

Although I have practiced tummo off and on for years I don't use it often. Occassionally, I experiment with it. For example, I was doing sit ups and after initiating the practice it felt like I was shooting fire balls out of my abdomen. It is something then to circulate into the orbit for health and healing. I was actually initiated into Tummo by an adept. He "lit" the fire in my belly and then it was easy to practice. As regards to heating the body when you are cold. This practice was taught to me by an alchemical hypnotherapist, David Quigley, and this does work. Visualize a hot, white sun. Think of it as blazing warm and toasty. Then breathe it in and swallow into your lower belly and let it shine and spread it's warmth throughout your body. It is effective. Blessings, Susan

yes, there is spontaneous movement from chi deviation and pathology. A good medical qigong practitioner can look at the type of movement that is happening and see what element is out of balance and manage it. I have seen some pretty wild movements that some slow stroking down the back and some kind words calm down right away. I have calmed some by touching gently and grounding them. My smoother energy field serves as a template for some people having more of a chaotic movement. western medicine does not have a cure but they do recognize chi psychosis. it is in the DSMV psychiatric manual of the American Psychiatric Association. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders Qi-gong (exercise of vital energy) is a Chinese method of meditation, based on traditional Chinese medicine. The best known in the West is Tai Chi, although there are around 2,200 methods in total. The DSM IV and Chinese Classification of Mental Disorders define it as an acute, time-limited episode characterized by dissociative, paranoid and other psychotic and non-psychotic symptoms that occur after participation in Qigong. An alternate name for the syndrome is Qigong Deviation Syndrome. According to a recent study by Dr. Huaihai Shan, folk-beliefs attribute the condition to "adverse flow in the body," "uncontrollable behavior," "over-meditation" and "spirit possession". Over a third of 129 respondents described sensory problems (32%), mood symptoms (90%) and behavioral problems (37%). Other symptoms listed were memory problems (24%), attention difficulties (26%), thought disorders (18%) and disordered consciousness (2%). Nearly all patients report "the Qi moving within the body, and dashing or rushing into the head." Somatic symptoms may include headaches, dizziness or disorientation, and strange sensations in the lower abdomen (the Dan-Tian point). They may demonstrate hypochondriasis, anxiety, sadness and feelings of being out of control. In addition, they may experience visual and auditory hallucinations. The symptoms occur after Qigong practice and may last two weeks to a month. http://rjg42.tripod.com/culturebound_syndromes.htm (All these symptoms are not unusual and can point to a chi deviation or a clearing happening in a person's energy system. A little education and re-assurance can go a long way in making this not such a bad problem as it looks in the above quote. A little bit of Microcosmic Orbit, Secret Smile and keeping the tongue up touching behind the top teeth goes a long way to prevent such problems and soothing them.) But it is not commonly known it is in the DSMV as well as the little known diagnosis Spiritual Emergence which is a catch all diagnosis for shamanic type experiences. http://www.spiritualcompetency.com/dsm4/dsmrstoc.html if a person has a practice or familiarity with chi and chi sensitivity I would not discourage them from practicing spontaneity. Generally it is a practice for higher level practitioners but I will work with beginners so they can start to have spontaneous movement of chi under my guidance. It is an important part of chi development. One must consider cultural differences too. I am not familiar too much with China but I am certainly familiar with Westerners and they can adapt fairly quickly.

if you just practice standing stake it will happen on its own eventually. its nice to have a guide when you start but it doesnt mean you cant start without one. the key is to relax and let the energy take you. no fighting or resisting. it's like surfing...ride the wave..dont fight it. if you can find a video of spontaneous shaking qigong that would be a nice start. my friend took his down. s

My experience exactly. I practice Wuji Qigong taught by Master Duan Zhi Lang. In my over 20 years experiences of traveling and meeting masters, spontaneous qigong is found among the higher practitioners. It can be difficult to achieve for some because it requires a relaxation and surrender of the ego to let the energy flow. Some spontaneous movement is due to chi obstruction and pathology but once the energy channels have been cleared sufficiently it can be a dance like movement. One can see not only spontaneous 5 animals but bagua, asanas, and other movement. We are are just energy anyway. my 4 cents...inflation

My choice isnt there. http://www.tempurpedic.com/TEMPUR-HD-Collection/TEMPUR-HD-Collection.asp but being frugal I bought a topper off overstock.com for $120.00 instead of paying 3-4k for it. the best thing I have ever done for my back... that and chi gung and massage is what keeps my back healthy i like taking a nap on the water too. not a water bed but an actual lake or ocean. i sleep on it with a cotton duvet between me and the surface. you should have asked us what we wear and don't wear when we sleep in the poll too.