zen-bear

P.S. I want to qualify that statement I put in bold: "Weapons forms most likely evolved before kung-fu first sets."

Dear Michael, Thank you very much for your affirmative critique of and positive feedback on my observations and the clarifications that I have tried to add to this Qigong discussion. And you're welcome--I'm glad that the observations I made find congruence with your three decades of experience in medical qigong. As a teacher, I'm constantly doing basic education to inform folks that there is a wide spectrum of Qigong arts ranging from purely medical to purely martial to purely spiritual types. But I think due to too much reading books and blogs, and gossiping, and not enough hard practice of authentic Qigong, a lot of people aren't getting to a level of discernment where one can recognize and differentiate between Qigong methods. Yes, what bothers me the most these days is the real problem of more and more people subscribing to the simplistic, naive, self-limiting and growth-stopping notion that qigong is nothing more than "intent plus energy." Recently there was some hour-long program on PBS narrated by james Shigeta called "Qigong" produced by a very inexperienced self-proclaimed "expert" (someone who studied with some master in China but who obviously didn't understand what he was studying--other than calisthenics aspect), who has propounded the false idea throughout the show that Qigong was the original precursor that gave rise to Tai Chi and all the internal martial arts. This idiotic re-writing of Chinese martial and yogic history is actually insidiously propounded by certain commercial/corporate interests. --i.e., the company that distributes the very mediocre Qigong DVD's produced by this same producer of that PBS program (you can easily ferret all this out) wants to make a lot of money selling DVD programs that teach a "generic" brand of Qigong. So when you see the continuing perpetuation of this totally false notion of a universal, generic "Qigong" style,just be aware that there is corporate greed behind it. I remember in the early 1970's when I was beginning my kung-fu training with Sifu Douglas Wong, there was hardly any mention of Qigong. There were hardly any books on the subject because it was jealously guarded secret. 40 years later, there are shelves and shelves of books on Qigong! What happened?? Did all the martial fraternities in China, all the Taoist and Buddhist spiritual orders suddenly decide to cough up the Whole Truth about their highest secrets? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. Starting in the early 1970's when we students and when our sifu's spoke about "the internal" it was with a grave reverence because we knew Chi Kung (how it was romanized back then) was most deadly and dangerous, because there are some forms martial qigong that can kill without leaving much of a trace, and undo a life system that no western physician (or most eastern doctors for that matter) can possibly explain through an autopsy. But this is America, and you see the dumbing-down and dilution of every product, commodity, or idea--in order to sell more of it more easily. I've been a U.S. citizen since 6 yrs of age and I graduated from the Harvard Business School (for my sins) in 1980, and I function well in a capitalist society and understand mercantilism thoroughly. But when this stupid, ignorant, and mercenary re-writing of Chinese yogic history is starting to pollute the mind of the masses (in the same way that the PRC government printed and disseminated tens of millions of instructional pamphlets filled with line drawings teaching generic "qigong" and "tai chi" just to pacify the masses starting in the early 1970's--and this downstream hokum flowed to the West, got translated into books and videos, and that's all what the masses think Qigong is,) and I'm now spending inordinate time educating people that come to my classes (or use my DVD's) to the contrary--that NO, the the Chinese martial arts came first, weapons forms came before fist sets, and the internal arts (qigong and neigung) evolved to different degrees of sophistication within some Chinese martial art traditions--and not all within others, etc. And to see the misinformation of that Qigong show on PBS only irks me. To make this clarification once again, I'll offer two arguments or justifications of my observation: I will use first make a rational argument that Qigong, by virtue of its definition (that any beginner or even layperson in China would know) cultivates and gives rise to numerous forms or "flavors" of internal energy; and then secondlyj, I use an anecdote that I had told earlier on this blog to PROVE that qigong is not intent plus energy: (A) let's start with the three essential components of Qigong. The three elements that make Qigong Qigong are: (1) "Xing" the regulation shape-form of the body; (2) I (or Yi in Wade-Giles) - or mental focus, which is the regulation of the heart-mind (xin); and (3) Qi (chi) "breath-energy" which connotes the regulation of respiration by esoteric breathing methods--and not just "natal" breathing!!!. If you just think about the range of variation within each of these 3 Qigong parameters--Xing, I, and Qi, then you know that the most heavenly and sublime spiritual healing energy can be cultivated (such as that of the FP system), or the most hellish "toxic" and deadly energies such as those cultivated in various dim mak (dim mor) traditions. I mean, one doesn't have to be a scholar or a historian to understand the truth. But what's making it more and more difficult to parse the truth about Qigong out these days are the money-changers and the confusion they sew by propping up ignorant non-experts willing to do their bidding as "experts." Because diluted, pedestrian forms of Qigong can be sold through books, videos, classes and weekend workshops as instantly gratifying "quick-fixes"--just like diluted Indian Yoga has been for the past 25-30 years in the West, I fear that as a teacher, I'm going to be one of the few lone voices in the wilderness screaming against dumb and dumber. ( A while back, I shared with this discussion thread in a posting addressed Sifu Garry Hearfield [who studied with GM Doo Wai as well (but much more recently and many years after I had trained with the GM)] a training "accident" I had around 1993 when Grandmaster Doo Wai of the White Tiger Kung-fu system (Bok Fu Pai) instructed our study group to buy a bunch of very small pet creatures and had each student attempt to revive (with the FP healing energy) one of the little creatures that was allowed to dessicate and die beforehand (the Grandmaster was able to do this everytime he demonstrated his healing energy on these and other small creatures). However, none of us students at the time could do it...and we had been practicing the FP system and more advanced healing qigong meditations for about two years. When it was my turn to attempt to revive one the small creatures that was placed in the same container/pen as the other living ones, I tried and tried, circling my palm in a certain direction and mentally issuing the energy from my circling palm. I felt the energy issuing from my palm but nothing happened to the dead creature. The Grandmaster instructed me to keep trying. so I tried and tried, but still nothing happened. So I finally gave up. I felt kind of dejected at failing the exercise, but about 20 seconds later, when everybody had given up and were taking a break, one of the students, I think it was Tino Baguio, yells "Holy Shit--they're all dead!" Everyone gathered around the container and sure enough, everyone of the little pet creatures was dead. So despite my absolute, clear intent to heal and revive the one creature, I totally (and embarassingly) "misfired" the internal energy in my body at the time (because I had also been religiously practicing the "most martial" qigong systems that the GM had taught me as well as the medical Qigong system.) Instead of having a healing/resuscitating effect, I had a deadly effect on the entire lot. GM Doo Wai told everyone with a twinkle, "Yeah I saw the energy go into them and it was the wrong energy." Then the GM made some adjustments on my wrists and inside elbow points with jiao and declared "Don't worry,that won't ever happen again. When you want to heal, the healing energy will come out; and when you want to hurt, the martial energy will come out." So far so good. [but regardless of the GM's reassurances to the other students back then, none of them would ever spar with me again.] I cite this accident story again to reiterate the point that if Qigong was indeed a matter of "intentionality" plus metabolic energy, then I would have had a salient effect on the tiny little creature and his peers would be alive today because my healing intention was pure. The fact that I had the most pure, earnest healing intention (that everyone in the room could see and clearly feel), and yet the "wrong" energy issued from me (because on a daily basis, I had been doing a higher percentage of martial qigong exercises than FP Healing Qigong exercise.) is clear proof that Qigong is not merely "intention plus energy." Rather, what I've learned and what I try to teach is that Qigong is a diverse body alchemic knowledge populated by a wide range of very esoteric, powerful traditions that cultivate many different forms or "flavors" of internal energy. ***Another case that substantiates this point: in the late 1970's when Taoist Priest Share K. Lew was at Sifu Douglas Wong's White Lotus Kung-fu studio in Van Nuys in the late 1970's visiting his friend Master Hsi Hung Hsi, the famous Hsing I master who had flown into town from Taiwan, afterwards, Sifu Lew said to us "Master Hsi, his energy is very different, it feels very, very different from any other chi I know..." (meaning different from any form of normal human energy as well as yogically cultivated energy in all the Chinese systems--of which Master Lew was widely knowledgeable in). No one knows what type of internal cultivation Master Hsi mastered in addition to his Hsing-I Chuan's internal tradition. Mark, thank you for sharing your MA background even though you say you're not a MAist. I am old friends with author Robert W. Smith, and I have all his black and white films that he took in Taiwan in the late 50's and early 1960's--including the footage of Chen Pan Ling demonstrating repetitive line techniques--that someone else posted on youtube: And yes, I can relate well with your affecting your horses one way with Qigong and then very differently when you assume a Hsing-I posture. As you know, domesticated animals are very sensitive to human energies and the psychic energy that is cultivated through Qigong training. And also wild animals for that matter: Even before I learned any of the White Tiger internal systems in the 1990's, when I as practicing the Tao Tan Pai internal system (taught by Master Share K. Lew) in the late 1970's while I was living in the hillside community of Los Feliz in L.A., one densely foggy evening I was in a horse stance doing slow Circling Palms, a skunk appeared at my feat out of the foggyy blanket and stayed there just looking at me for about a minute (he never sprayed me, thank God.) and then disappeared down my driveway. On the other hand, 15 years later, after GM Doo Wai had taught some of us a very powerful martial qigong that is effective at a distance, he instructed us to try it out on dogs. Not to kill or maim them, but just enough to see their reaction. And when the energy was directed at them (by holding one's body a certain way), they always became very defensive, bothered and hostile--to say the least--barking up a storm. Thank you again very much for affirming my position that there is so much more to Qigong and Neigung that just metabolic/respiratory energy and intent. As you can see, I'm kept pretty busy responding to questions the best I can on this discussion thread...But if there are other discussion threads on taobums where you think my "two bits" might be beneficially heard, let me know which ones I should take a look at. When I have time, i will read them, and decide whether or not to add a comment or two. Thanks again for chiming in with your note of resonance with the truth. Lux et Veritas, Terry

Hello Lloyd, Your training questions are good ones. As you've been working with the DVD series for about 4 months now (as I recall), I assume that you've worked through the sequence of 5 standing Med's in Volume One all during one session (on a couple of occasions or more) and the 6 Basic Seated Med's in Vol. 2 all in one sitting (on a couple of occasions or more). Once your body has memorized the sequence in Volume One, the seated sequence of meditations in Volume two, and if you've also memorized can perform with eyes closed "Wind Above the Clouds", "Wind Through Treetops" and "Moonbeam Splashes on Water", then you can do less of the stationary basic meditations, you can mix and match the meditations anyway you want. However, the base med's that you should be very, very comfortable and "automatic" in doing (i.e., they practically do themselves) are: 1. "Monk Gazing At Moon" (60, 40, 20); and 2. "Bending the Bows" (70, 40, 30, 20, 10) As you are now spending 20 minutes per exercise and are used to "moving like a sand dune", and doing 3 execises per hour, you can continue for two more months at this excellent rate until your bodily naturally "tells you" or you intuitively know that you can shorten the duration of the first three stationary exercises like "Mong Gazing At Moon", "Monk Holding Peach" and "Monk Holding Pearl." In my beginning classes, when students are just learning the FP med's, I have them do the first 3 standing stationary med's each for 15-20 minutes. But with after six monthgs of weekly classes (24 classes), I shorten the time to 7-8 minutes for each of the stationary three (Monk Gazing At Moon, Monk Holding Peach, Monk Holding Pearl) and if the students are really relaxed, sunken, and "soaking" in the FP energy, we do the first 3 meds just 5-6 minutes---and spend more time doing the moving meditations of vol. 3 and 4. ***ALSO, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THIS TIP AT THIS POINT: SHOULD YOU EVER FEEL THAT THERE IS TOO MUCH ENERGY STOKED UP BY THE FP PRACTICE, YOU CAN ALWAYS AMP DOWN THE ENERGY LEVEL BY SIMPLY EATING SOMETHING. UNLIKE MANY OTHER QIGONG SYSTEMS THAT GENERATE QI THROUGH DIFFERRENT ALCHEMIC FORMULAS AND WORK THROUGH DIFFERENT ENERGY PATHWAYS, WITH THE FP SYSTEM, YOU CAN SHUT DOWN THE VIBRATORY STATE JUST BE EATING SOMETHING SOLID. Also, the FP system works best if you are on a regular and healthy sleep schedule. Other Qigong systems (e.g. TTP neigung) can replace sleep to a certain extent, but NOT the FP system. It relies on a foundation of regularly getting a full night's sleep (which of course varies from person to person...some need 6 hrs/night, others 8.5 hrs., etc.) It sounds like you're doing great with the FP practice and getting good results. As far how far you can go in terms of energy cultivation: it all depends on the individual. the more you practiced the greater the reserve of healing energy. You can never "OD" on teh FP system. Just not possible. Even if you vibrate with tremendous involuntary movements, at some point the vibratory state will naturally subside on its own. Thanks for the questions. I think others might be able to utilize my answers as well. Best, Terry Dunn P.S. also for additional ideas about how many med's for how long, you can refer to the training schedule on my website: http://www.taichimania.com/trainingschedule.html http://www.taichimania.com/essentialguidelines.html

P.S. Oh, I forgot to answer your question regarding Liu He Ba Fa: 6Harmonies/8Methods Boxing (which is what I formally call it--also "Water Boxing", or "Schwei Chuan") is a complete system of martial art. Just like Tai Chi Chuan. Relative to Tai Chi Chuan being regarded as a complete internal martial art, it would be incorrect to call 6H/8M a system of Qigong. The complete Liu He Ba Fa martial art contains very specific martial qigong exercises,which can be clearly demonstrated as being separate from the Form(s), weapon form(s),and the fighting techniques codified in the Form(s). Therefore, the complete art should be referred to as an internal martial art.

Sifu Garry, I hope you had a lovely Easter as well. I just sent you a PM. Let me know whether it got through. Thanks. Best, Terry

Hi Sifu Garry, Happy Easter. Answer to your question: Rare systems of Medical Qigong that cultivate purely a healing energy (e.g., Flying Phoenix Qigong) naturally impart more health benefits than what I generic qigong (what I call "pedestrian" qigong) or martial qigong systems. (**not to sound condescending or snooty, but so much of the qigong that's been published in the west in books and videos are translations of very basic, rudimentary qigong exercises from broken traditions that the PRC printed onto tens of millions of pamphlets with line-drawings and disseminated throughout China in the early 70's just to keep the populace pacified--hence, "pedestrian".) I don't like this downstream hokum because it creates the totally false notion that there is a style or a body of "generic qigong." I call this low-level generic qigong "pedestrian qigong" because unqualified, self-proclaimed teachers are doing this simplistic stuff for a short duration, calling them "masters" and further palming it off on the public--in just the same way that Indian yoga has been totally diluted by fast-buck artists and commercialization that has no standards whatsoever. Qigong has always been and always will be the SECRET ENGINE that empowers Chinese martial and healing art, and it comes at the very end of one's training--as we both know--NOT at the beginning. [After all these years, it still just drives me crazy when some when someone tells me they practice qigong and I ask them, "oh, what style?", and they say "I don't know, just qigong." It's like someone practicing kung-gu and not knowing what style they're practicing--or that there are even different styles of kung-fu!] Before I met GM Doo Wai, I wouldn't have known the difference between generic qigong and martial qigong. But after having undergone the training to learn both a purely medical qigong system (Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Meditations) and several martial forms (e.g., 8 Sections of Energy Combined), and having not learned much of GNDW's Bok Fu Pai system (but having seen plenty of it), and the "most" martial component of BFP that he practices (which I will later PM you about)), I can readily attest that medical qigong has more benefits than the martial qigong. The most martial qigong that GMDW taught us feels totally different from healing qigong (Flying Phoenix) in every way. The energy is different in nature and it affects the practitioner's body in a totally different manner. When I first learned one of GM's "most martial" qigong methods, it caused certain root parts of the lower body to vibrate intensely. To me it was obviously martial. When I commented about it to GMDW, he said (verbatim), "That's the energy it takes to take out somebody." The energy effects from this martial qigong system is completely different, almost opposite from the tangible energy effects of Flying Phoenix. Thanks for asking your question. It allowed me to think back about the contrast between martial and healing qigong systems. Also, to complicate things further and to show the degree of sophisticated refinement in Qigong arts, one predominantly martial system that GMDW taught 3 of us in our group: called 10,000 Buddhas' Mediation had 3 sets of meditations. Each set cultivated a different type of energy. When all 3 sections were mastered, the combined energy is very unique and powerful. GMDW told us that many of the exercises in each of the 3 sections were health-and-martial meditations (they had both health effects and cultivated martial energy).--and I don't mean a generic metabolic energy that when combined with SHEN/martial intent made it a martial energy. It was a cultivated, non-ordinary, standing martial energy, ready to issue. Cheers, Terry

Hi Lloyd, Your questions were actually kind of fun in that my answers were simply based on common sense regarding the "energy of good and evil"--recognition of which is (or at least should be) the very first practical benefit of any kung-fu training. I was able to elaborate with more philosophical and spiritual insights and references to the I Ching as a function of my yogic experience, my alchemic experience (e.g., familiarity with oracles like the I Ching) and "calibration" to energy and spiritual phenomena. I look forward to your comments and further questions. Best, Terry Dunn

Hi Sifu Garry, No, I would say not similar at all. Eight Sections of Energy Combined uses larger frame in most of the forms, all appear obviously internal (the way GMDW did them) such that two of the Sections (part of the first, and all of the fourth and eighth Sections) look very much like Tai Chi in terms of circular movement, softness, rooting, and very slow tempo of the movement. But the fighting applications are all so trick--and in a classical manner. And the body dynamic is totally different from BFP, BokMei (YKM), and Southern Praying Mantis...in that the style is not built upon the "sink and swallow; float and spit" body dynamic. I can't really find another reference to describe it. It's just quite unique boxing style. Not like shaolin, no distinctive animal inspired movements. It'll be quite some time before I put them on video. But if we ever get together Garry, I'll be glad to show you. I'll say this in addition: once the BDG Forms are well-trained, the body motion used in BDG strikes do NOT emphasize "rooting" the stance as Shaolin or in Tai Chi Chuan. All the best, Sifu Terry

Hi Sifu Garry, Answer: Yes, BDG has breathing percentages. The wondrous thing to me is that GM Doo Wai translated the internal systems that he had inherited (--that he had learned by just watching and sensing his father's breathing rhythms plus whatever oral teachings he used) into the breath control sequences with the percentages and all...and one system like Flying Phoenix is 100% healing at the highest level of sublimity, and then your Burning Palm System, and the BDG system is 100% destructive, for one purpose alone--killing.

Thanks for your nice complement, Bill. Best, Terry

Yes, exactly. My very first thought and best analogy was what I said--like holding the handle of an electric razor running on "high." First in the tan tien and then through any natural-fiber object that one touches. Of course, we know what happens if one issues this heavy-vibrational energy directly into another human being.

Hello Bill, I am not familiar with "8 Compartment Qigong". No, "Eight Sections Combined" or Eight Sections of Energy Combined is a rare and extensive internal martial art that I learned from GM Doo Wai that he learned from a senior monk at a Buddhist Temple in Macao. The GM said that he "wheeled and dealed" his way into acquiring this art by exchanging some of his BFP knowledge for it, and by "other" means which I won't elaborate. In Cantonese, the GM pronounced the art "Bot Dim Gum". He said that Cantonese term also refers to what has been long published as "8 Pieces of Brocades", which he spoke very lowly of, saying that it was some kind wierd "marching drill". The 8 Brocades that I've seen in several books and which I tried and tested long, long ago is very, very basic standing qigong calisthenics with nothing close to the effects of any of GM Doo Wai's internal arts. I say this based on my experience and with all due respect to 8 Brocades or 8 Pieces of Brocade tradition because what has been published that I've seen has no breathing method taught with it. There may be more advanced versions with an empowering yogic breathing method attached, but I have not seen such a version. I'm sure there's more to the art; but what's been written in books is very, very rudimentary qigong. The 8 Sections Combined ("BDG") art consists of eight very different and quite complex kung-fu forms , each with a different breathing method, each cultivating a different kind of energy. And the 8 Sections are supported by a half-dozen or so Qigong-like moving meditations that cultivate the BDG energy. When all 8 forms have been long-practiced, they created a blended internal energy that is unique, to say the least. I use the term "martial qigong" to describe this art in that the qi that it cultivates is very "heavy" form that is easily tangible and is so intense that it feels "mechanical", and can be transmitted through natural fibers such as wood, cloth, and even thin metal. (It is a totally different type of energy than that developed by Tai Chi Chuan (jing), that is released through the sinews.) Back in the early 90's when I had just completed the Third Section with GMDW, when I picked up my straight sword one day to practice the Yang sword form, without even doing the first movement but just by lightly gripping the handle, the sword vibrated from handle to the tip, with the tip displacing more than 2" at a visibly blurred rate. I was dumbfounded, elated, and have been quite amazed with this art ever since. When I have have demonstrated this art to other instructors, I usually did it through a large wooden table-top; the witnesses each time reported that not only did they feel the wood vibrate mechanically, but the distinctive energy infused their bodily tissues, going into their hand on the table and up their arm to the shoulder. (In each case, I made sure that I took the energy off the person). GMDW's mastery of this art is of course more complete, for when he demonstrated the energy on a couple of occasions--several times on a wooden table top and once through my straight sword (GM holding handle, me lightly holding end of sword with my hand), the vibrational frequency and amplitude of the energy that I felt each time was like what one feels when holding the handle of an electric razor on "High" setting. No exaggeration. I am pretty certain that each indoor student of the GM has experienced this demonstration at some point. Thanks, Bill. Your question about 8 Sections caused me to recall the early days of training in this system and to come out once more to attest to the fact of GM Doo Wai's authentic and formidable internal energy capabilities. There are very, very few old-school grandmasters like him still alive. Best, Sifu Terry Dunn

Dear Bill, You're very welcome. Again, because of your screenname, bakuakid, I called your attention to the 8 Trigrams chanted while practicing 8 basic movements and steps in a particular form of Bakua that i was introduced to in the 1980's by a teacher in torrance/redondo beach, CA. A: I stated three systems to be conservative. These are the internal systems I have completed training in and can teach when students are ready for them: Tao Tan Pai Tai Chi Ruler 8 Sections of Energy Combined (Buddhist) Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Meditations (Ehrmei Ten Thousand Buddhas Meditation (Ehrmei) (I do not count Tai Chi Qigong, as I have not completed my training in that yet) Best, Terry Dunn

P.S About the clip you sent of the filmed Russian(?) energy issuer: It looks somewhat legit. But, but, but: I am very, very suspicious because they filmed it with dim-lighting and lots of shadows. Plus the guy had on shirt-sleeves, which could easily concealed a laser as other viewers had commented. Or even an frickin hair-dryer! If it's Russian, you have to remember that that country is just totally gripped by evil and there are innumerable scams flowing out of it. This clip is in ridiculous contrast to GM Doo Wai's demo's for us, such as when he did the Chi manifestations. He would always roll up both his sleeve, the lights would be on bright-bright, and he washed both hands thoroughly up to the elbows, and then demonstrate the manifestation.

Thanks for sharing the Taoist standing exercise called "Embryonic Standing" thru the link. That is very interesting qigong form (Small frame). But given the name, I knew what to look for and I "get" what theis form does...Master Zhu is very good. BFP and Flying Phoenix have a number of moving meditations that are done at that speed and which circulate energy in similar manner thru similar postures. We also go down to extremely flexible postures in our Qigong, but mostly use the "dragon drop" posture that's cousin to the "hurdler's stretch"/snake creeps down-like posture seen in your clip, only that both legs are folded in, symmetrically, and inside of both folded legs are touching the floor while seated (with heels pulled back alongside each hip/butt.) One qigong form that I just recently decided to teach is one of the several "Preparatory Forms" of Eight Sections of Energy Combined, a martial qigong system. A great and agile form involving going into and out of the deep, "dragon drop" posture two times and coming up from it two times--with synchronized elegant, rolling hand movements. I may make a video of this and post a clip of it sometime in the near future. If you decide to explore the I Ching, I would recommend using by far the most widely used text, the Wilhelm/Baynes translation, with intro by Carl Jung. Published in Switzerland. so you don't have to change the height of your table lamp! btw, the original Taoist Sanctuary in Los Angeles, built around master Share K. Lew around 1970, originally sponsored Ni Hua Ching's immigration to the U.S. The Taoist Sanctuary was still forming when just starting TTP Kng Fu around 1974, and I remember the controvery that Master Ni created when he first settled in L.A. a couple of years later. He is quite a profilific translator. I am acquainted with his two sons, Mao-xing and Dao-xing, who are both acupuncturists and OMD's, who run Yosan Univ., a large TCM teaching and healing center. I've referred patients to them over the years; they've referred Tai Chi students to me, and they all hold Master Share K. Lew in highest respect as they witnessed early on his Taoist priestly ministrations. happy explorations of Bagua, Baguakid! Sifu Terry

Sifu Garry, Was this sun dar ritual indoors or outdoors? Do you remember particular spiritual order was practicing? Taoist? Buddhist? or Taoist-Buddhist? Interesting mojo, huh? Did you witness sun dar possession of the nature I've described? -- where a guardian martial spirit inhabited a practitioner and demonstrated Kung-Fu? Best, Sifu Terry p.s. Sorry for delay in reply, but as you probably read, I got distracted writing a long answer to the "Thelema" controversy, which unfortunately has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion thread about Flying PHoenix, Bok Fu Pai, and GM Doo Wai's arts.

OOOPS--I MEAN 8--THAT'S EIGHT--TRIGRAMS (NOT 6). (I haven't fully awakened yet this morning! )

Yes, I meant you, Bakuakid (sorry for the typo): And I alluded to you in my email to Sifu Garry Hearfield because the repeated progression of those six Trigrams of the I Ching (each representing a force in Nature) is an essential practice (recited over and over and over) in a particular style of Bakua Chuan that conforms to six arm techniques, six steps of Form practice. whaddaya mean you are "directionless" for a long time? You cite Lao Tzu, and subscribe to taking "the simple and easy way" That's seriously Taoist!

Thanks for sharing, Garry. As I mentioned in my reply to Hunyun's posting, giving an account of Sifu John Davidson's introducing to me to the works of Crowley, it began with using Crowley's Tarot deck out of curiosity and on a cookbook level in the late 1970's. ("cookbook" being doing one of the most commonly prescribed card layouts and then looking up the "meaning" of each card in the little white booklet that came with the deck.) While I began to read excerpts from a few of Crowley's books, the only extent of my usage of his Tarot was doing a once-a-year New Year's spread to get (what I considered at the time due to my total inexperience) a "tongue-in-cheek" forecast for the new year. That's all i did for about almost 20 years, until I met my present spiritual mentor in the 90's. Everything changed when i began to see day-in and and day-out how my teacher used the Crowley deck. At this point, I want to correct a slightly incorrect statement I made in the earlier posting stating that I have not channelled Crowley's spirit nor any of his spiritual allies. I will say that that is not totally true because it is obvious to me that if one is using Mr. Crowley's Tarot deck consistently and productively on any level, one is indeed tapping into Crowley's spiritual genius and partaking of the alchemic and artistic contributions of his two collaborators--who came together with Crowley to create this deck, even though they did not like each other very much. The 3 of them are represented on the 9 of disks, Gain. I will offer this pointer to you since you have his deck--and to all who have the eyes, the mind and the will to do this: The more one meditates, and the more one visually memorizes every card in the Crowley tarot deck--i.e., become able to see each card in one's mind in exact detail and color--the more information that that particular Tarot will return to one. (Of course, if one had photographic memory, this would be a snap...but most of us don't and this is a long exercise.) This exercise of visually memorizing every card in the Crowley deck was my very first unofficial "assignment" when I began my apprenticeship. It was just suggested to me. But my spirit told me that this suggestion was something to be thoroughly acted upon. So I did. In relation to Chinese alchemic arts, it is akin to memorizing the image and general "judgment" of the 64 hexagrams of the I Ching and learning how they are progressively formed by the eight basic trigrams--Chien--creative heaven; Tui--Joyous Lake; Ken--tranquil mountain; Li-illuminating Fire; chen--arousing thunder; Sun--penetrating Wind; Kan--abysmal water; Kun--Receptive silence, the earth. [Does this sound familiar, Baguakind?] --except with Crowley, there are 81 talismans to memorize.