...

oh damn.. sounds like I may be dissapointed. I will give it an earnest go. I would really like to master it. ...but not if it is as you say it is. thanks for the heads-up =)

I think effort is necessary for any meditation. the amount of effort should be proportional to the benefit would you say it is better than qigong?

i would take the vinyasa myself ... or, even, maybe all 3?? (I cant find yoga or tai chi / qi gong classes anywhere...)

I don't even use tooth-paste. I've always figured that it was a commercial invention that is really pretty unnecessary. I don't have yellow-teeth, I have no cavaties or any dental problems, I don't have bad breath.

smile, one of the fundamentals of the spiritual path is 'experiential evidence'. If I did not go on this, but believed and did what other people told me, I would not even be on the spiritual path-- In fact, I would be a fundamentalist christian. How can we be expected to have such blind faith in such things as ... karma? merit? meat-eating? Perhaps if I had a teacher whom I loved and trusted, only then can I allow myself to have faith in such things. Otherwise, it seems the path of wisdom lies in 'experiential evidence'. until then, my philosophy lies in the tao te ching, and my spiritual practice with my experience.

wow, are you proficient with astral travel??? I could never do it.

uh... technical difficulties... mypay doesn'trecognize APO AE =\ I can't say I am in germany, because the mypay site turns all into german, and I am not sure if an APO AE address is a valid german address. I can'tsay I am in the USA, because I will have to choose a state, ... and there is no 'apo ae' 'state' available for selection =\ I have this problem with every on-line vendor, with the exception of amazon. =\

you're so fucking cool, lozen. =p a real babe! do you except visa??? will you ship to APO addresses in Germany? lets see what you have....

Though I agree with you about being an omnivore... (heaven and earth treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs...[my fav. quote, I guess...]) or, as chuang tzu pointed out, there is as much 'tao' in a piece of shit as there is in ablade of grass or a cow. The only way, I believe, meat can be bad for you, in a spiritual sense, is if you feel guilty when you eat it. that is why, I think, some taoists pray to their food before they eat it. ...There is an interesting point to makewhen it comes to eating meat and spiritual advancement. Many schools believe that eating meat 'bogs down' the body to a more base nature, and, I guess, inhibits chi-flow or something whatever. (does anybody really know what this new-age theory is in more detail?) there are others who believe that you somehow take in the karma of whatever you eat.. the big examplebeing, a cowlives and is butchered in a very inhumane manner... and the consequent bad karma passes onto you through ingestion of the meat. (I think this one is, clearly, bullshit.)

I was re-watching the matrix and I fell into aspecific sortof emptiness. at my peak ofmeditation, I felt a connectedness with my immediate surrondings, in my chest, and it was bliss. this went on for like a few weeks (I really don'tremember...) and then gradually residedinto, eventually, nothing. I had never forgetten this emptiness...and I still attempt to re-achieve it. however, I have elarned that there are necessary ways of going about it. generally, what I have been doing isa sort of 'reaching out' from my chest center to envelopemy surroundingsand 'dis-identify' with my body. this 'reaching out' would usually begin with a pleasure in the chest area, but would eventually be drained of all pleasure, until I was left with a dark, or uncomfortable, 'emptiness'of the chest area. (I had imagined.. is this because I lack jing?? I don't know why my emptiness practice would progress this way!...) There is a book, of which I am VERY fond, and HIGHLY recommend: "Tantra: the path of ecstasy" by georg feuerstein.within it is a small bit I will relay here... ---- ... abhinava gupta speaks of the followuing seven levels of bliss: 1 nija-ananda, or innate bliss, consists of the realization of the self as being totally seperate from the objective reality and is due to the yogins concentration on the subjective side of emptiness at the heart. 2 nirananda, or trans-b;iss, arises when the yogin focuses on external reality. it results from the ascent of the life-force tpp the psychoenergetic center at the crown of the head. 3. para-ananda, or supreme bliss, is the realization of the self as containing within its infinite compass of all objects, which are grasped individually. ir is caused by the descent of the life force in the form of apana from the crown center too thhe heart. 4. brahma-ananda, or brahmic bliss, is similiar to suppreme bliss but here objects are grasped as a totality. this state is caused when the lifeforce assumes its samana form at the heart. 5. maha-ananda, or great bliss, con

(continued...) ...consists in therealization of the self transcending all objective forms asa result of the ascent of the life force as udana in the central channel. 6. cid-ananda, or concsious bliss, is the realization of the self as subject, object, and means of cognition and comes about with the converion of the udana life force into its vyana aspect. 7. jagad-ananda, world bliss, is the realizaion of the self as including absolutely everything within and without. this i sthe most ocmplete enlightenment. --- Now, I think I cn practice residing in the emptiness as explained by (4). do I think this is a result from some sort of alchemy, as implied by the last sentence in each description? I don't think so.. I don't even know what udana is yet.do I think that each of the 7-'layers' of bliss come right after the other, in sequential order? quite possibly, now that I look at it! do I know for sure, though? ..no. It is incredible I have forgotten this lesson... howimportant it is-- the contemplation of emptiness! how many of us remember that there are actually different ways to experience bliss??? Sure, I had it in the temrinology of 'the secret of the golden flower', that describes 'littleoblivion' and 'big oblivion'... little oblivion being what probably what most beginers of zen or emptiness do.. try to stop the mind with the mind, dwelling IN the mind. This is clearly impossible.. let me assure you, with many wasted hours in such 'trance'! itwas when I fina lly learned to stop the mind in these different manner that I discovered what I called 'big oblivion'. (though I think these descriptions of emptiness are much better...!) as for the alchemical sentences at the end, I would like to understand that. I am thinking that they do not CAUSE the described emptiness... but are rather a CONSEQUENCE? (if they really mean anything at all...?) anyways, I hope you guys appreciate this lesson as much as I do!!!!!!!!! ) =) =) =)

I frequently hear how karma is somehow responsible for our spiritual advancement. -- I once read on this board an explanation of karma, and it has reallyshaped how I would view karma. It was said that karma is basically neurosis that creates ties in the energetic body. (for example, you do something you believe to be bad, and it causes you turmoil, the consequence is a knot in the energetic body.. something that will need to be undone for spiritual advancement.) I think this is a beautiful explanation. but there are people who claim that karma is a universal principle, and something that is even applicable from past-lives. (bill bodri comes to mind.) "heaven and earth treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs... Therefore, the sage treats the myriad creatures as straw dogs." Karma as a universal moral law seems, to me, ridiculous. It seems that the basis of such 'karma' is based on such things as being 'good', or 'bad', or 'virtuous', or 'non-virtuous'. But hasn't taoism, if not modern philosophy, taught us that such things are... a lie? such things as 'good' and 'evil' are simply notions created by the minds of men-- and therefore hardly applicable in the grand sense of the 'objective universe'? It seems to me that 'universal karma' is mere superstition-- with no real experiential proof anywhere in sight. why are weso bent on being persuaded by it? (especially Bodri, I would like to know... becuase he talks of karma and merit like it is all that is needed.)

man you are like WAY too into matrix terminology man. I think a good interpretation of the matrix.. is that perhaps it is the world as seen through the eyes of the ego that is the matrix. that is all. After that, there is no 'matrix'. ...It was an illusion to begin with. I'm not entirely sure what your philosophy really is... But doesn't the invention of the 'matrix' create a sort of duality.. a distinction between what is 'real' and what is not... or what is 'holy', or 'godly', and what is not? That's why I like Taoism so much. The theory of 'tao'... is just... irrefutable.

that is a good answer... You also defined the karmic knot in a very interesting manner. thanks...

I don't understand smile. If I were to steal a bunch of money from someone, and felt ok, or even good about it, then I don't see how this will create a karmic knot in the self. If I was responsible for much emotional turmoil in the victim, and they developed a big karmic knot from the event... I still don't see how that would effect me-- (if I still didn't care.) In fact, one could say that it is the victims OWN fault for their emotional turmoil. Sure, I was the CAUSE for it.. but it is their own lack of wisdom and their attachment that creates their karmic knot. unless there is some sort of spiritual connection between us-- like there is between lovers-- then I just don't see how they could possibly effect me.

So, I was pretty heavy into practice a couple years ago, and then it waned quite abit when I joined the army. .. maybe 6 or so months ago, when I was not practicing at all and had not practiced in a long time, I realized something-- I heard voices. I swear, it's a common phenonema for me. It is totally random and uncontrolled-- I simply seem to pick up on random thoughts (almost always about me,) people have. This is especially true of people I get close with.. for example a girlfriend. We could be having very minimal conversation, and I would hear her thoughts. I am noticing I am picking up alot on my room-mates thoughts to.. though, this is not to say I won't here strangers' thoughts... I just seem to have a stronger psychic connection with people I am close to. I remember a teacher I had for a short while when I was really strong in practice. I got very paranoid because it would seem they would pick up on my thoughts. (which makes makes me think of things I wouldn't want them to hear me think.. which was embarrassing, and just cause for paranoia) And also, with a recent reiki attunement I got, I could hear him. I am not sur eif he could hear me, but I am pretty sure he could. In fact, I don't remember, but I even thought that we had replied to eachothers' thoughts. I made a point of asking him about psychic connections with his patients, and he said he didn't know anything about, shrugged his shoulders and said '"it's possible." ...(all the meantime, hearing him repeat "shut-up!").. I was very close to seeking psychiatric attention some months ago, because I had been so out of practice, and so low in energy I couldn't believe I had the spiritual attainment necessary to be even so mildly psychic. I was very seriously concerned that perhaps I was merely 'hearing voices', which is a very uncomfortable notion! Now, I am pretty positive that I am genuinely, mildly psychic... Though I still have concerns, and I think that I may possibly 'make' myself hear things that aren't there. (this may happen when I am being paranoid, for example, of what a person is thinking.) I am also pondering the idea, that perhaps sometimes... I might be influencing the thoughts of others? I doubt it, of course, but I still entertain the possibility. (I just get the feeling.. you know?) I doubt this, becuase I consider the power to influence the thoughts of others to be a very HIGH siddhi... something for the ghosts and incorporeal entities Could it be, that perhaps I did, afterall, attain a mild irreversible siddhi in my practice heavy days? Or, even, that I am naturally inclined to be psychic..? (I lean towards the first possibility, because I don't think I started hearing thoughts around the time I discovered 'big oblivion' and truer bodily detachment...) anyone have experiences themselves?

that is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to hear, top-fan. (ie someone with similiar experience with this sort of thing.) from experience, I understand how powerful marijuana and mushrooms can be on the body/soul.. some of my best experiences have resulted from these things. But, I also wonder, what kind of meditation techniques did you focus on when you were doing this sort of thing? (Did you practice emptiness to a serious extent?) ...hey, wow, thanks for the welcome by the way! make me feel like I belong here

...or is it mudra?? You know.. Those little hand gestures you often find in yogic practices? ...I was thinking... You know the little gesture where you form a circle with your index finger and thumb... Does this have a similiar effect as embracing the tree? You are, afterall, simply creating a circle of flesh in both postures... But besides joining the meridians of the index finger and thumb, does it have the same qi culminating effect as embracing the tree? .... I am imagining it does, though to a lesser extent. What do you guys think?

What exactly are the 5 elements? I think the biggest reason I never really had great success with element work is because deep, deep down I never really believed in the elements. Never ever really 'felt' wood...metal... and I after reading thru ancient alchemy.. I.e. Secret of the golden flower.. The names of the elements where just symbols.. Earth is awareness.. Fire is attention.. Etc... Never did I come across any ancient literature talking about the 5 elements in the sense chia or winn do... And this definately does not boost my 'faith' in fusion What I believe in is chi.. Jing... And shen. I have experienced each of these seperately, and I believe I can discern between which energy I am feeling. One beget two... Two beget three.. Does this mean anything regarding alchemy> And again.. Perhaps someone could explain to me what the elements really are... Where they come from, what they're comosedof... What they feel like... Why they are attributed to their colors... Why can kidneys be black?? Why can they be blue? What if I did fusion with the colors all mixed? What if I used different colors with every practice? What do the elements feel like? I felt fire.. Or what I thought could be fire... But it could easily just be jing that I felt, and considered it fire. Anyways.. Sure you guys get the point..

Oh man I love jung... I haven't studied psychology or anything... But I have read thru a bit of his autobiography and his book, 'man and his symbols'. His theory on archetypes is amazing... He was such a fucking genius... I was hesitant to believe and first, but the evidence he put out in his 'man and his symbols' book really does wonders to backing his theory... Even if I can't recall any instances such symbolism in my life Ironically, I just taped a picture of jung pouring over a book to my wall... I ripped it out of a book I borrowed from a library lol... And I think he is my recent inspiration back into spiritualism... Anyways..I don't agree with you about the smiling thing. I am just not convinced. I think the technique is a waste of meditation time. (I have tried it many times, btw)... I forgot about the whole transforming negative emotion thing. I think that's bull too.. I never did anything like that in my hours of fusion... Not that I am consciously aware anyways. Think of emotion as disease.. As yellow emperor says .. From something I read recently on board.. Treating a disease once it has happened is like trying to dig a well after you've become thirsty... You see? Same kind of premise. If you soemhow become a master of auch fusion, get enraged or even just mildly upset for some reason, and immediately transform it... Well, you lack wisdom and true spiritual progress anyways, as portrayed in your looseness in emotion... You should have been practicing in a way as to the point where you wouldn't get upset in the first place... Which is easy with detachment and inner calm. Or maybe I am missing something still, do you think?

The colors I can understand when used as a tool for deeper concentration... And also to create a sort of pavlov effect. ... But I have been given the impression that they mean more that. .. That colors emenate from certain emotions and symptoms... Most popularly and simply, black is the color of the aura of dying people. .. So if we use colors as focus in meditation... Is there not any sort of subtle consequence? Emotion.. The inner smile is the first and foremost thing I disagree with when it comes to practice... The ancients said that the emotions are 'robbers'. ...good and bad emotion. If you look to acupunctue, you will notice that 'joy scatters qi' and the like... So how can the use of emotion in meditation be justaified when working with the inner smile and the elements? What is the reasoning? I have experienced periods of great peace without emotion. So, I know that working with emotions need not be necassary for a kind of 'nirvana'. (In fact I believe that great joy can be extremely detrimental when you experience these sorts of 'emotionless' blisses.. I.e. Feeling great joy for your success at ecstasy will throw everything off balance and eventually bring you down a bit. Is this right? What do you guys think about my thoughts on this?) And...uh..uhm..the phases... I understand the elements more than I did before, thanks for those posts however, I now definately don't understand how you work with the elements, now! Especially fusion 1. In fusion 1, am I simply moving about the qi of the 5 organs, balancing them out and replenishing their qi supplies?? So.. In fact you are not working with the elements at all... Just the qi of the organs?? Is this right?? And fusion 3 is just opening meridians, if I remember right... Don't remember what fusion 2 is... But you never really feel or work with elements... They are just a theoretical state of energy?? Man, if I am on the right track, chia has a shitty ass system... Babies and animals and colors and all sorts of incredibly ridiculous things in fusion... Man, fuck no wonder I thought it was bullshit... And if this is the case, I don't believe fusion is a prerequisite for higher states.. If fusion is simply acquiring balance, then I believe balance can be the indirect result of other techniques... Zazen for example. And to think I almost sat done and thought about memorizing all those animals and babies and things just to balance the qi in my organs.... Am I missing something? I would still appreciate elaboration andor input from anyone else willing...

what was there to laugh at? he said he does micro when he works out I say I did nei gung ..? Am I that pathetic?

in highschool i was pretty pumped... when i worked out i would do nei gung ang go crazy with my jing. this really really pumped me up. adrenaline will start pumping and you feel a pretty tough-feeling rush...

isnt it supposed to be a good thing... not so much the end of the world... sure its not the 'end of the world as we know it'? thing .... anyways I should easily be enligthtened by then... I would need more time more immortality

hey, if it's one guy who I miss... or i guess it was all the cool insights, advice, and knowledgw i miss... hope this isnt just a one time appearance.... ?