sufidao

I've seen so many translations of Old and Classical Chinese texts simply ignore the character 夫, while in Daoist texts one may encounter a statement like "夫道者" which obviously is not ignorable. Considering contents of the texts, I've guessed these as translation: "O friends!" "Therefore" "As a fact" But none can be supported by dictionaries. How should we translate the character 夫 used separated, for example, before a comma at the beginning of a sentence?

I found the very verbal understanding of the opening words of the Guanyinzi very difficult: 非有道不可言，不可言即道；非有道不可思，不可思即道。天物怒流，人事錯錯。若若乎回也，戛戛乎鬭也。勿勿乎似而非也。而爭之，而介之；而哯之，而嘖之；而去之，而要之。言之如吹影，思之如鏤塵，聖智造迷，鬼神不識。惟不可為，不可致，不可測，不可分。故曰天、曰命、曰神、曰玄；合曰道。 The challenging part, for me, specially begins from "若若乎回也...". Can anyone help me with a translation of it? Thanks

So, 若若 refers to dangling or a state of being hanged. How about 啧? I couldn't find any proper meaning in the dictionaries I know.

In my opinion, here, in the context of 鬼神, "gods" for 神 must be differentiated from " the Spirit" or "God" for 神 as a designation of Dao in "故曰天、曰命、曰神、曰玄；合曰道".

Thank you very much for this translation. It solved most of the problems I had. However, I'm still wondering why 若若 is translated as "thick", or 啧 as "containing". As for 言之如... I think it cannot be so generalized. It's about Dao again and it has an object because of 之. "Speaking of it is like ...", "Thinking of it is like...". Therefore, it is Dao that cannot be understood even by ghosts and gods. Thanks again

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I was curious to know if the Neiye is included in any of Daozangs? The significance of the issue would be in being accepted of the Neiye by Daoists, traditionally, as one of their scriptures.

Thanks Walker 【論語】夫仁者。 Now, what should be the translation of "夫仁者"? should it be translated at all? Here is the full sentence from the Analects: (punctuation by Charles Muller): 子貢曰。如有博施於民而能濟衆、何如 可謂仁乎。子曰。何事於仁 必也聖乎。堯舜其猶病諸 夫仁者、己欲立而立人、己欲達而達人。能近取譬、可謂仁之方也已。 How about "夫道者" that is frequent particularly in Wenzi and other Daoist and even non-Daoist texts?

If you get accustomed to do spiritual practices in solitude you never can do it in public. Sufism teaches that solitude temporary can help a lot but one should not prolong it more than three months.

I prefer to talk about personal matters privately. As to Sufism, yes, it has lots of things, metaphysically and practically, in common with Daoism and Mahayana Buddhism. Sufi practices can be categorized in five divisions: 1-Contemplative (tafakkur) 2-Meditative (muraqiba) 3-Mantric (dhikr) 4-Devotional (awrad) 5-Calculative (muhasiba) The end, in Sufism, is to become free of individuality and full of the Divine. 1001 Divine Names play a prominent role is Sufi practices.

OK I expressed my thoughts and you spoke your mind. That's it.

I've never wanted to discuss these matters. Let me, just mention in passing that you modern Westerners are extremely mannerless. Once in the name of colonialism you enter the sacred East and harm people. Once in the name of missionary you come and destroy all believes and replace yours. Once through your satanic media come to the East to implant your own ideologies whether fundamentalism or modernism ... All your sciences and academic researches are biased and based on temporary paradigms, always prone to changes (according to political matters). Besides, in recent academic atmosphere of the West, so many scholars have come to discern falsehood of the ideas such as "post-Chuang-Tzu Religion" or "Philosophical Taoism" and so on. Just take a look at the works of Livia Kohn, Louis Komjathy, James Miller, Sarah Alan, Russel Kirkland, Anna Seidel and many others. Komjathy says,"outside of the modern world, there is no form of Daoism that is not “religious.” Although there are aspects of Daoism that are “philosophical,” “philosophical Daoism” fails to consider the centrality of embodied practice (way of being), community, and place in Daoism, especially in “classical Daoism.” It is based on a systematic mischaracterization of the inner cultivation lineages of Warring States Daoism and a misreading of the earliest Daoist texts, namely, the Laozi (Lao-tzu; a.k.a. Daode jing) and Zhuangzi (Chuang-tzu), among others."

May someone explain it clearly for me, what is this "philosophical Taoism". Is it something newly invented?

Lots of thanks to you, Here is the text: http://philosophy.sysu.edu.cn/jdjsx/info_Print.asp?ArticleID=383 And it's full of "凡夫", usually at the beginning of sentences. If the mentioned translation is available online, please share the link with us too.

Yes, Logically it's coming and I believe it. But if you have no earthly master, how did you come to learn practicing Daoism? And the last question, I promise, what's your nationality? If you don't want to answer this too, just let me you whether you're Asian or not. Thanks

Interesting! Power of celestial great Immortals... I think I read some apocalyptics warned by you. May I ask how old are you and who is your earthly master?

That's right. Surely, Fu is interpreted as "Universal Man" in that text, but the problem is that in the main text it's but a grammatical particle. 夫，人神好清；而心擾之。 Anyway, in olden times language was not as dead as today to be understood mechanically.

That was a good translation, but the link to the Chinese text would be sufficient for the time being.

Thanks again, The Interpretation is quite deep and it seems that the author is well versed in Daoism. Please, let me know, whose writing is this and where can I find the complete text of the interpretation for this chapter and the rest? * I'm not a sifu, but a sufi

Thanks ChiDragon, But:

Thanks Dawei, It helped me a lot. Consequently when it is used at the beginning of a sentence, it is a grammatical particle, not to refer to a reality. Now, I wonder how it is interpreted in a classical Chinese text like this: 人得一為大，大得一為天，超出天外，方為夫字。 http://www.26869273.idv.tw/13bible/htmlpage10.htm

I've checked the website and almost all other useful websites and dictionaries but I've not found my answer, that's why am asking here

Have you ever thought that why do you have reason and intellect (intuitive reason)? The idea that nothing is real unless I touch it, I smell it, I taste it, etc. is proper to be used in modern science. And yes, a reality has no meaning as it is not applicable as well. Words have meanings; a meaning is nothing more than a means to the reality. Of course, it is possible to attain the reality of things without the aid of words, MERELY through intuition or practices (dealing with actions); the method that is all the more personal, it cannot be taught without words if you are not a Shenren. If you are, please don't use words, sit there and transfer your knowledge to me without words. Thanks in advance.

At least, keep the files on the server as it is now: http://www.google.co.in/search?q=site:http://www.taodirectory.co.uk/+filetype:pdf&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=665&prmd=imvns&lr=lang_en

I'm not much familiar with Old Chinese or Classical Chinese or even modern Chinese. But I think the character 天 has found its meaning as "a day" in Classical Chinese. By Old Chinese (not Classical Chinese) I mean the language of the oldest found texts, like oracle bones, the Yijing, and to some extent Laozi, Neiye, Lunyu, Mengzi and the five classics (wujing). In Old Chinese, as far as I have seen, the word for "day" is commonly 日 along with its primitive and principal meaning of "Sun". 上日 means "first day", 終日 means "all day long" or maybe "everyday". And the character 今 alone has the meaning of today. For example, 執古之道，以御今之有。 - Laozi, Ch. 14 Grasp the way of ancients, to rule what exist today [only 今]. Or 心之憂矣、寧自今矣。- Shijing, 大雅, 瞻卬, 7. The sorrow of my heart, Is it [only] of today[今]? 為學日益，為道日損。 - Laozi, Ch. 48 Practicing knowledge, get increased each day [日], Practicing the Dao, get decreased each day [日]. 君子終日乾乾。 - Yijing, Qian, Line 3. The superior man, all the day [終日], is active. 日中見斗。 - Yijing, Feng, Line 2. Seeing the Dipper at midday [日中]. Can you mention a single phrase of Yijing, Laozi, Shijing, Zhouli, Shang Shu or any Old Chinese text using 天 in the meaning of "day"? And huh, Heaven is Heaven, True! As the earlier Heaven and the later Heaven are one and the same, the only difference is in the arrangement of gua-s: in the earlier Heaven, the first gua is the Heaven (the Chinese always begin from south), so the Heaven comes earlier than the rest. And in the later Heaven, the Heaven is not the first gua, so Heaven comes later. That's it! This simple difference, made by King Wen, caused the Zhou dynasty conquer the Shang!