Spectrum

I think it's a breakthrough for Cam that he is aligning emotional movement w/ physical movement and spiritual breakthrough. That's usually finished in the first two years of Standing practice unless you stop practicing, but some people get addicted never break free from their own emo cycles.

qouted first, answered later.

The thread name is "spontaneous movement" Scotty. Your playing on the wrong court. We're playing two on two, and your shooting horse. We're playing texas hold em and your dealing solitare. <shrug> Its just not what the thread is about.

Thats some low calorie yoga lite

Your on to something here. Strengthing the weakest link being the stabolizors and balancers. Learning how to move along all the unconventional paths (the spirals) to create the same linear forces like a punch is the very essense, metaphysically this is where you overcome the forces of inertia and feel "lighter"... VERY good your thinking this through. If you watch the way the Wudang forms generate motion from the center, and surf the bodies fluid curves in nonconventional ways (moving in spirals) the whole idea behind learning "forms" takes on a different meaning... it's about learning the irrigation system of the body as a cycling pump, watering the source of consciousness. Thanks for your valuable thoughts.

It's not anger. It's passion. I have hurt feelings here. I'm trying to speak my heart and mind on these issues. I care about this stuff. It's a point of tangible dialog. These arts have changed my life. Irreversably. I love enough to compose a thoughtful reply to multiple responses, and then that one person that I actually care enough to give the benifit of doubt, to reach out to, I actually called you Cameron, you've heard my voice.... disrespects my entire communication by deleting all his posts? That is immature. If I was face to face w/ with you Cam would you treat me like that? You speak highly of sifu this or sifu that, but this is actually how you treat people. Actions speak louder than any of the words you've said here. These words remain. You felt it! Nice. A synchronistic balance between playing and being played. A two way conversation.

I care enough to carry a dialog with you... you delete your side of it? I'm glad I qouted some yeah? Learn to speak as if it's going to last forever. Deleting your words doesn't mean that you didn't express them. For a practice that is profound to you, has it changed the way you communicate? we read your words, a lot of us, so you can't 'really' take them back... It's more offensive to me that you blow me off with " I deleted my posts ". What motivated you to being with? Again, I'm glad I had the foresight to quote you as soon as I realized you had hit your trigger with "I'm not posting here anymore"... xeno is right on there. Long patterns standing. This is personally offensive to me. I had a pleasently brief and friendly phone call w/ you, I continue on w/ those lines along w/ some dialog that is meaningful to me... because in that call I said to you that the spontaneous movement was meaningful to me, especially in regard to how it related to the classical nature of chinese martial art... You delete your dialog like it never happened. But it did Cam. Just like that call. Most importantly. You can't delete what is spontaneous. That's what standing is for. Cultivating that internal relationship. Stand in one place until the burn turns. That doesn't mean don't move, it just means wuji is the starting and ending point. The opening and closing point. The gateless gate. I asked my Seigung something along these lines. He talked about surfing external energy and surfing internal energy. It struck me at the time to turn my camera on. Nothing planned, just talking about training the previous day... I'll embed it at the bottom of this post. I consider it possible to have a dynamic relationship between the current and all the antennas simultaneously. A clear channel is the result, what's the use of a clear channel if you don't communicate effectively? DvN4OqY9dEU

Before I say anything more I want to point out that humans have this nack for making the very simple, very complex. So i'm pausing here to ask what is naturally spontaneous, that which occurs without thought attached to the action. Catch your balance. A flower, follows the sun. Puppies, burrow towards milk. Humans, reflexively flinch when "startled". Trust your intuition. It's not that I'm attempting to exploit anything through film. That is the difference between filming for your self, and then choosing to post it later, vs. "performing" a "demonstration"... I think I should point out I'm not posting my own "spiritual practice". You'd wouldn't see much. Just stillness. A twitch here or there, and more stillness, an adjustment, breathing, stillness, breathing stillness. We don't even do it in front of each other, it's personal. If you do, it's like you said, an ancient recognition of student teacher, master disciple, relationship, that has repeated itself for thousands of years. There have been various instances in which every single method of practice I have "learned" have melted into an improvisational processes that is a "working out" of blockages in my personal expression. After that things are more clear, feelings acute, motivation and it's working out more direct. Thought and action unified into closer relationship, perhaps even indistinguishable at times... The road to absolute stillness is inspiring, and painful. You might feel like moving, singing, coughing, whatever, having "forms" to "practice", ie fall into, I have seen it many times, in many kwons, sifus from many places sharing the same wisdom, speechlessly, adjusting postures, sweat dripping, primal sounds, emotions, trauma being released... and finally when chi is directly transformed to li it seperates the novice from adept. That is where martial and healing "power" coincide. This working out. This GUNG. Once you work out your kinks, you can be as kinky as you wish. move it, shake it, it has meaning, like ruffling feathers has meaning to the stork cooling wings in the wind. Ultimately there is a rhyme and reason to movement, else humans would not be able to make sound. That's really awesome man. Really special times those are... r e a l l y. I n v a l u a b l e ! ! ! Respect shown here. I can't say a word. It's between you and your teacher you have bonded with. Of course. Value in the context of entertainment or learning is different than inspiring the choir. I'm not talking about learning something here. We're just talking about inspiration through raw expression. Learning in a linear way is impossible when it comes to interpreting someones spontaneous actions. I can use a concrete example of the video I posted on the top of page 2 of my brother. He was so excited to be doing something different that he posted it up. I reposted it. The same folks who are talking about "spontaneous" movement and all that, have the audacity to make fun of him for doing what feels good, so I totally understand where your coming from, it is a position of vulnerability that most people, myself included, are not willing to take when it comes to exploring spiritual practice. This position of vulnerability is what happens when you realize you need a guide through the forest of life if you want to learn more than the main road everyone else is on. This position of vulnerability is where chi cultivation begins to become your armor from others mental judgements of "movement"... What i was doing was practicing. It wasn't a demo for anyone. I check myself. Your choosing to see the videos as "demo's" simply because of the format the information is presented to you. Video. Inspiration is different than the mentality of consumption. Looking to be entertained vs. looking for those a-ha moments that the entrainment mediums layer over. Another example. I was watching a juggling video earlier. I was struck by the stance the juggler took as the balls moved faster, it was wuji, a slight squat, widened stance, hips fluid, hands agile. Inspired me. I took a deep breath and smiled. Refreshing. Meaningless really, totally spontaneous on his part, as he was focusing on juggling. I think your slightly off course here... and this is why... forms are "guides"... like tracks to fall back on, paths of least resistance... because if I surprise you Cam, or Jenny, Lin, Maxie, Trunk.... or any other human being on the planet, sometimes I even scare myself on purpose.... I mean really surprise u, as in you take an unexpected gasp of air and you get some good pucker factor... or maybe theres a car coming at you, or a punch, or you hear a train is coming and your standing on the tracks... there is a series of responses that mean you will survive, and a series of responses in which you will not. One of them your body and mind opens to ALL POTENTIALS, and the other, you body and mind close. One fork of response limits your options, the other opens limitless potential. The flowers cooreography is coded into it's seed. It follows the sun. To live. This is about cultivating LIFE. Good teachers plant seeds in individuals that will grow spontaneously when the person is ready for it. Different people move differently, so once the kinks are worked out (blockages from being silly humans) different people gravitate towards their strengths and are made aware of their weaknesses along the way. Forms are for learning how physics are connected to our being, at first physically, and then spiritually, if the student is willing to take it that far. Wuji is connective principle here. What your doing is clearing our your meridians for later purpose of fullfilling your destinty. (spiritual art) Bagua, Shinyi and Tai Chi Chuan are CONTEMPORARY (the last 300 years) arts that step from older understandings of movement. This is about cultivating the geometry of the body, the geomantic relationships between soul and its environment. The three treasures of chinese martial art are representations of that type of cultivation, standing atop the shoulder of giants, teachers know the students are going to have to work the kinks out, and it's nice to have a flight plan that's useful for taking off, navigating terrain without crashing, and landing safely. If you throw a thrashing student into the deep end of the pool, they will just drown. More... The video i posted a couple days ago here is just practice footage that I use to observe my posture (like my right hip in single whip). Someone has said in the past that it seems like showing off, but it's not like that. It's uncomfortable to see yourself, especially when practice "feels" a certain way, and then you observe what the external manifestation of that feeling is... also when something spontaneously occurs that FEELS so great, I've wondered what those moments look like in myself... so that was @ post #36... page 2... this is #144... page 7... my thread has been here since Sept 07... that's a lot of movement inspired by simply drawing a line in the sand a couple days ago... I rest my case. A non-text medium of expression. Why? Because observing myself is difficult. Video does not lie. Anyone who observes themselves knows what I mean, anyone who has ever recorded their voice and played it back and thought... is that really me? You know this is very interesting because I've had this happen physically, by drawing tension between two or more poles, movement is spontaneously generated. I learned this working in crowds, so it's a very physical thing... here the video medium is used to generate movement that is subject to the dualistic discrimination of mind. Your standing there. You hear a train. You realize your standing on the tracks. Do you need to think about getting out of the way? Not one itty bitty bit. You may pause in disbelieve... if you have "time"... but most of the "time" in those moments... time stops... or elongates... but most definite there is a change of "mind"... it's really a beautiful thing. Like Timeless Love is Beautiful. You feel fully alive. These are the moments that change lives. Your crossing a suspension bridge, a board breaks underneith your feet, you reach for the rope. Your standing on the beach, something profound has changed in your life, your mind and heart, you take what seems like your first breath... after what seemed like dying. Theres no words for it, yet every poet and song crescendos into nameless depths. It's just as much about living to find these moments, as being the moment. We're humans, being on the edge of history. Living to die. Dying to live.

I just saw this video come up as related when I was checking my youtube biz. Would you like me to comment on your video?

If I can swing it in the next two weeks I will.

separation

That's the spirit Cam. Accidents happen. Here is video of a Wudang "form" (a prearranged cooreography) Fu, I wonder what type of information is being transmitted here. You'll see a spontaneous adjustment at 00:15 ... u6ealFUTLus

There are benifits to adjusting how much energy the senses use. Sensory deprivation is probably the fastest way for most westerners. Other practices may seem like exercises of "will", but fasting is a close second, followed by daily chi gung until mental dialog melts into body dialog. THis is where wuji or emptiness is realized instead of aspired towards. It's hard work, it's only 3 inches away, but it's the farthest three inches you will ever reach. Spectrum ps - fasting is not just a food thing. I would lean towards saying most folks can benifit a great deal in their communication by fasting from visual media for a season so they can adjust to seeing inside clearly, without the residual patterns from daily media consumption. Music is a nice alternative, especially playing it, as the internal dialog completely switches over to a single layer.

zero

There is no such thing as formed formlessness. The form movement practice is simple a practice where one was not previous taught the formlessness they are moving through. With form, there is formless. Notice the form and you have noticed the formless. Notice the formless, you thus recognize that which is has form. It is paradoxial, because one holds to formlessness, the form dissapears. Because one holds to form, the formless appears. Considering this carefully. Putting yourself in a neutral position to act decisively seems to have the most potential for spontaneously addressing.

Unorthodox movements may inspire someone. :boing: Use it or lose it. Times are a changing. That's your thing, not mine. This is not a "real" taoist community, nor did I state that, I simply said that this is "one" of the campfires of information that contemporary man sits around to share information. Film doesn't lie, its a non-text source of information sharing that you would be wise to exercise.

We'll see if we can create an opportunity for all of it to come together in a single moment. The rest is hearsay. Problem Solving is Now. Forms and Formless Unite. Until Then.

Spontaneous movements. Filming forms. Taobumness. Remember? Sifu Jenny wrote this letter to you. It was suppose to say no filming? But when we look, we don't see that in her letter. Perhaps you would like to rephrase? Was that a personal opinion? Word of mouth? I'm not disrespecting, I'm having open free dialog on a public forum. I've gone to the trouble to post videos of SOME of the physical practices because I'm hoping to light some bulbs out there. Thank you. I'll consider this if I'm not being a retainer for another purpose at the time. Honestly here I am most drawn, again, to witnessing what you folks have been shown as spontnaous chi gung. Simple enough. Is this something that you would enjoy demonstrating?

Sucker Statements: Standing will teach you wuji and song. Random movement is ok for working out kinks, while your standing... reaching for wuji. If you don't think it's possible to get through the burn, you won't. So at the first most teachers tell you go ahead and move around. Just an asthetic notion. A lot of people look in the Kwon in chinatown and smirk at people standing in universal post. It's a similar concept of judging things we don't understand. Lin and I both practice Chinese Martial Art. There are some common elements to our movement transitions and physical postures that have meaning and context in relationship to our environment. Much like wuji and song have a physical meaning to forms; that is sinking your cog while stablizing your foundation w/ tension/compression. These are not just ideals, they are physical truths. Standing reveals these truths to practitioners, that is why movement is coupled with stillness. Cultivation is expanding your spectrum of influence between absolute stillness and absolute movement. When you get surprised you do not have time to consider ideals, your body speaks the truth. So see here, you did something for youself, because you wanted to share, and someone told you not to... out of fear. Just whatever you do, save your videos so you can see your progress when you think you havn't grown a few years down the road. enough said

ROFLMAO Break a sweat, lighten up. It's not that serious. It's spontaneous.

This is about inspiring other people to practice. Why else would Jenny even have any videos of herself. Her form is not perfect bro, look at her alignment and the stop and go's in her form. Everyone has room for improvement. This thread is just to post form in a formless way. Look at my very first post you guys, is there a master there? No it's not some chuan guy, but there is a little boy.... and it looks remarkably familiar... it's just honesty I'm looking for. I've traveled a distance looking for that. I will continue to travel and look for that.

Cam, I'm not sure where my trip is going. Where is Quans "dojo" in Phoenix? I love this part. This is real. Something to reflect on. Not face to face but Thank you. However spontaneous there is an aspect of contraction and expansion that can be percieved whether in form of formlessness. Sung. But observing spirit ape it might just be sarcasm. Promise? LOL You guys are way to defensive about freedom. It makes it all so obvious.

I don't see anywhere in this communication that says "no filming" ... Actually it's quite the opposite from the tone you set previously in this thread on spontaneous practices: form and formlessness. This implies each persons form is the individuals to practice. To own. To make theirs. To live it. Again. Personal Ownership and responsibility. Sounds like learning how to drive the car comes after Spontaneous Alignment or getting your car tuned up so you can get to your destination safely!

Thoughtful Remarks. Thanks Cam. Where does Sifu Lamb say no filming? A variety of animals grooming themselves around the water hole. Picking, Kneeding, Brushing, Stretching, Combing, Rustling, Ruffling, Shaking and Settling...

let me repeat something you said: That is the point of video. If emptiness is subjective then there would be no such thing as Wuji. (the foundation of chinese martial/healing arts. If bliss were subjective there is no such thing as an orgasm. Wuji is a demonstratable state, your bodies natural innate balancing pendulum. When you lose balance you fall over. Gravity is not subjective. The fact that we're all walking upright is not subjective. Wuji is not subjective. Any teacher who tells you that is just taking your money. Wuji is a repreducable state transmitted from student to teacher for the means of improving your bodies natural immunities. This is for both fighting and for health and is the POINT of standing meditation. The differences in how a person gets to this state are what make life interesting. Some people surf, some people skydive, some people draw or write poetry, and some people practice kunlun.