zerostao

well it relates to your question about "do we have free will" i will crudely parapharse what jaques said repeatedly thruout the journey everything is already written up on high as he confidently nonchalantly rode his horse talking to his master, and many interruptions and comical events along the way. but jaques altho and it has been pointed out by later critics , it isnt so much fatalism, but rather determinism, none-the-less jaques was a man of actions , making his own way. does that help any?

@mewtwo, does one have free will? how do you feel about diderot's Jaques the Fatalist 's ("tout ce qui nous arrive de bien et de mal ici-bas était écrit là-haut")

"It really is at times difficult to talk about philosophy without being interrupted by our mystic friends." if you have a philosophy section without mystics there wont be any Hegel, Heraclitus, Kant, for starters . and depending if you decide to go with a apophatic or katpahatic you might have to include Lao Tzu on your forbidden list. edit>>but you could sure talk about marx

life imitates art--art imitates life

so what i am reading here, what is considered magic or magick? some differentation hmm anyways almot everything described here i have thought of as either psychology, philosophy, energetics, art, or interacting with spirit realm. and i will still have at least one more post to make here, in a bit bka, i do have a Taoist talisman/fu over my front door ! i used to carry one in my wallet,,and maybe i do need to charge a fu to put there again. haha in this thread love was never mentioned..........maybe this guy was a magician? idk i put him as artist "Yes is the answer" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dHUfy_YBps

"We have Lots of farmers that are not magicians" ok fair enuff lol and of course there are tricksters and then the capital T Tricksters but my gate of wu chi question is still there gonna take a break for a bit, BBN is about to take the big stage here.. see if the ink prophet is a prophet after all

in my neck of the woods we have these guys called farmers, you rneck of the woods they are magicians? interesting, again then, everything is magic, isnt it? ok here is a question for ya'll magicians; can you use magic to enter the gate of wu chi? if so, how? i am finishing up an academic paper on the archetype> the trickster, i learned a few things in ya'lls opinion is the trickster a magician?

nungali much of what you are saying, i would put under the label of existentialism. i am very much interested in your aboriginal shaman experiences and insights.

"No. IMO one should try to harmonise with the 'magic that nature is already providing'." i agree edit> and i remain playful, nonchalant, optimistic

mudras and star stepping is energetics. i am coming to see that everything is 'magic' and i cannot argue with that. what i call nature ya'll is calling it magic.. wheh old chi says "the intimate matrix underpinning reality" and i liked than entire post by old chi. i would say it is the inconceivable nature of nature edit> and if you say magic is conceivable and manageable, could be , ya'll know more about magic. i already said i have no idea but if that is how your defining magic and you can manipulate it? then there are still natural forces beyond that

i would like to hear flowing hands response to this, he considers himself a shaman i wonder if he also thinks himself a magician?

your description is of what i have always called concentration. you are saying that magic is a concentrated thought? edit >> i already mentioned intention and will and focus. and my idea about magic is its none of those

i agree that 'magic' is just there in nature. the practicioner's goal, certainly risk for human error

an immortal spirit is as natural as nature itself. @old chi, perhaps rainbowvein is suggesting that by playing the magickal practices you will never here the voice of Tao? idk, but is my wisdom greater than natures, or spirit realm or the Tao that my urgings to have magick work for me, somehow greater than the magic that nature is already providing? I am not saying there isn't magic in this world but what I think is that I am better off letting nature handle this on her own than me prodding her to do so.

"How do you think he remains here to be considered today when he died a long time ago?" i think it is a nature thing an energy thing a spirit thing

old chi, you could be right about that, in either case he has left the arena,,but i think this could be a useful thread. someone like me who has not ventured into the taoist magic sub forum, there is the note to stay on topic, here in this thread i can ask my questions a little more relaxed, i think nungali, is the brand of magic you play with more with the conscious mind or unconscious mind? well i tried to multi quote, that didnt go to well lol

i am kinda diggin the kate tempest mystical poet ? maybe passionate? oh yeah

i am all for dancing ecstatically round a maypole with flowery dancing maidens. and mayday is right around the corner yawheeeeeeeeee i consult the I Ching but i dont think it magic. you are welcome to pm me about the 'too wild stuff'

well crap, the op just got banned from here. at his own request. and poof he was gone. i wont say it was magic tho. and if i use the shorter spelling it is becoz i am too lazy to strike that extra key. sigh, i thought i would learn about magic. if it is something beyond the ordinary wonders of nature, in the meanwhile i reckon i can stay working on that>> the ordinary wonders of nature that sometimes lead to those sublime moments. and my qigong and meditation. omg i am spelling ! " i use the shorter spelling" i have noticed some times when there are moments that totally defy any reason or logic that happens at a very opportune timing. curious, those moments.

nungali, that sounds like the results i get from qigong and meditation. 'spelling' that is a cool one GP. and i think that there is a type of power or energy in words and language. many cultures agree on this from the mayan to the bible.

yes i get that GP. yunan baiyao powder could be called chinese magic i reckon as well. those metaphysical or transcending momentary experiences i usually refer to as 'sublime' nungali makes a point about language . i just did some research about how this trickster till eulenspiegel when he told the "truth' no one believed him but he could "lie" his way to anything he wanted. is that a type of magic? nungali, the magic you are talking about, does it have ritual or spells?

ah yeah i'm in the same boat you are skydog, i experience all kinds of "magical" moments or experiences. but i dont formally practice any forms of magic. if one has a healthy energy, intention, will do they need to rely upon magic for a favorable outcome? idk anything about, i only have questions. does magic have a goal? if so, what is it?

skydog, i see intuition as one thing, and spiritual guidence as another, and magic altogether different. thats my pov i dont see the magician and the shaman as the same thing. if magic is about casting spells, well ok i will ask , is magic about casting spells? or is that another provence called spell casting?

not sure exactly the position of the op. but I think a case can be made either way; is practicing magic wu wei or zi ran ? is practicing magic a higher art or a lower art? is it found in Taoist canon? so is it Taoist or Chinese folk art?