Sunya

yes

how much does this Dr Lin pay you? I smell something fishy here. the OP is obviously just excited since he hasn't been with a woman in a while, this is normal. my advice: have sex. hahaha SLAP

Brave New World... I need to read that. sounds a lot like American culture, you're right. but is it the Gov't doing it? or a by product of Capitalism. people desire pleasure, people desire entertainment. supply and demand..

No. I think it's a pretty good analogy. "Feeling home" should only be secondary to scrutiny and logic. Karma shows that feelings aren't always from the "Higher Self" or whatever you may term the wisdom of Mind

I'm being pulled toward raping hookers, it feels good, it's my path.

man, it's not that I don't want to debate... it's that I keep repeating myself over and over and over again because you keep making the same mistakes in trying to describe Buddhist thought in Vedantic context that just isn't right. it's like you don't read anything I or xabir or Vajrahridaya say, because we keep telling you over and over and over again, it's like you have zero interest in changing your position, while Vajrahridaya on the other hand totally changed his position on Taoism having elements of dependent arising and not being a samsaric path in a very good debate, while you just keep sticking to the same guns, unable to see the other view point and repeating the same useless rhetoric over and over again. questioning my meditative experience or calling me a zealot or saying we don't understand Vedanta, blah blah blah. man... i'm done with this I feel like you identify way too much with your Hindu roots and it really impedes you from being objective and participating in a truly honest debate here. sometimes you act like you're being attacked, getting too defensive, when that isn't the point at all..

it is really useless to talk to a wall.

well theres an active thread right now that talks about the difference in philosophy as to the training, it depends on which school. buddhism is very systematic and formulated, its a science. there are many techniques depending on the school (tibetan tantric buddhist techniques are different than theravada or zen) but they all have something in common. you begin with shamata, or concentrative exercise such as working with the breath, and then you do vipashyana which is formless exercise. vajrayana (tibetan) also works with the subtle body and energy to speed up the process. taoist practices also incorporate similar tantric elements as vajrayana, and concentration, and even formless maybe. but in buddhism the view is the most important thing, secondary to method. if you look at the active thread discussing Buddhism and Tao, maybe you'll see why the view might be different.

nac you said you're on E-Sangha, go on there and ask if the goals are the same. no Buddhist would agree with this in this age of flatlanding and reducing traditions to their cultural differences, it is important to make distinctions

emptiness is not devoid of form. emptiness is form. there is nothing behind phenomena, phenomena is emptiness itself like the famou Zen saying: Before you study Zen, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers; while you are studying Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no longer rivers; but once you have had enlightenment mountains are once again mountains and rivers again rivers. once you have the realization of emptiness, you see that emptiness is form, so mountains and rivers are still mountains are rivers, though while you are still studying Zen and objectifying emptiness (like you are doing) as something BEHIND phenomena, then you discard phenomena as not real thus absoluting emptiness. You believe that you can meditate, get to a deep level of awareness, and call that deep level of awareness truth because discursive thoughts are gone and it seems like you're having a concept-less experience, when in fact, the mindstream has subtle karmic seeds in the waking, dreaming, deep sleep state. yes even the turiya state is not free of karma. so then it is impossible to truly be concept-less and get away from categorical frameworks and superimposition. so we have the tool of dependent origination, as a categorical framework, to see the truth of dependent origination beyond any categorical framework. the reason why you hold consciousness as absolute and not a phenomena is because of deep meditative experience, but due to a very subtle karmic seed of grasping, you are unable to see consciousness not as absolute, but as dependently originated like all phenomena. categorical frameworks effect even deep meditative states. it is impossible to be truly free of categorical frameworks until you apply the right view because you will always have some subtle form of grasping

there was just a whole thread on the differences, are you talking about just technique or the actual view and philosophy?

erdweir I know how you feel, I'm in the same boat almost, except i'm still in college.. last year, and studying philosophy. It's definitely sharped the mind but also lead to a lot of mental wank and even arrogance, so for a while I was pretty anti-intellectual and really appreciated nature and being in the body. it was a nice break. but then I realized I threw the baby out with the bath water. and this is not the middle way of Buddhism. a middle ground is possible, and even necessary i feel. studying Buddhist philosophy coupled with meditation has been really great for me because Buddhist philosophy is so practical. it isn't vague or idealistic, it's practical, and actually the view of Buddhism is a tool to get you unstuck from concepts, the logic is killer. so while I agree that too much intellectualism can be bad, completely forgetting about intellectual reasoning is bad as well. I feel that for someone seeking truth, they should utilize all levels of inquiry, even intellectual.

TNG is full of great episodes, I like the ones with the Traveler, I forgot the first one, but the last one with Wes is really good, where he joins the traveler--- "Journey's End" Wesley considers his future, as the Enterprise is ordered to remove Native American colonists from a planet that is about to fall under Cardassian jurisdiction. "Phantasms" Data experiences strange dreams, while the Enterprise has issues with its new Warp-core. But all is not as it seems. the ones with Q of course, "The Inner Light" A space probe creates a telepathic tether and causes Picard to experience, in twenty-five minutes, a lifetime as a married man on a world that was destroyed a millennium ago. "Tin Man" A gifted telepath whom Deanna Troi once treated as a patient comes aboard to establish first contact with an unknown vessel near an unstable star before the Romulans do. "Who Watches the Watchers" Deanna and Riker must rectify the damage done when two primitives from Mintaka III catch glimpse of a Federation observation team and eventually conclude that Captain Picard is a god. "Clue" The crew is rendered unconscious for 30 seconds except for Data after going through a localised wormhole. However, various clues suggest they were unconscious for an entire day. DS9 also has some great ones. "Far Beyond the Stars" After a friend's ship is destroyed, Sisko considers leaving Starfleet. Visions of himself as a science fiction writer in 1950s America affect his decision. "Children of Time" An accident causes the crew to meet their own descendants - and presents them with an ethical dilemma. "The Visitor" (my top favorite) An elderly Jake Sisko relates the story of how he lost his father. "Little Green Men" Quark, Rom and Nog are accidentally thrust back in time to Roswell, New Mexico, Earth in 1947.

an Advaitic who understands Nagarjuna better than a Buddhist, when Nagarjunin logic negates the existence of the ground that Advaita stands on.

Santi, you know I respect you and the work you do, but sometimes I really think you buy too much into anti-intellectualism and same-method = same realization thing, even though you've studied with many Tibetan masters. i'm sure they told you how important view is, which has nothing to do with mental masturbation. It's cause and effect. view is the seed, realization is the fruit. fruit depends on seed. method (tantra, dzogchen, archery) are only watering the seed. I'm sure the Dalai lama told you this, Gelugpa is the most intellectual of the schools, and yet they have many masters. you don't believe that view is important, that's fine, but I really have a problem with you making it seem like you have the real goods of Tibetan Buddhism just because you learned the methods, when no Tibetan master will ever tell you that view is just mental masturbation and extra BS. this has nothing to do with keeping the peasants and reaffirming the priesthood. it's so much deeper than culture. I think it's very good that you are looking for the bare essentials. I know that you are carrying out Glenn's legacy, this was his mission. but I'm sure Glenn said that it's important not to throw the baby out with the bath water. i feel like you may be doing this.. and I appreciate you looking out for my evolvement, i think i'm doing okay, will be beginning ngondro soon with a Kagyu Dzogchen lineage holder. I personally find all the extra BS to be essential, so i'm looking forward to creating the necessary causes for my future enlightenment

we are finally getting somewhere! after all the 20 pages of Brahman is Sunyata talk, we finally are coming to an understanding about the difference, and you do not agree. that is fine, but acknowledge the difference.

there is nothing beyond phenomena. everything is phenomena. we can continue this in the new thread you started but I wanted to make this clear here, as this is the main argument that you don't understand about Buddhism

just events experienced, i wouldn't agree with objects because emotions are phenomena as well, same with thoughts. i'd say consciousness is a phenomena too, consciousness and events are inter-dependent. can't have one without the other, therfore both have to be phenomena mind, form, inner world, outer world, perception, perceiver; all are interdependent, all are phenomena, all are empty since nothing is behind them, like a rainbow.

you're taking the metaphor too literally.. i said that to illustrate the point that not all religions (tools) lead to the same realization (bikes), i don't mean that the bikes are different as in.. different sizes, shapes, colors. thats taking the metaphor too literally. i meant that the bikes are completely different because of the tools used. that metaphor sucks, forget it it's more like, making food. the food is dependent upon the ingredients, the food is different. argh this metaphor sucks too because then its still food in the end and this does not illustrate that realization of nirvana and cessation of suffering are completely different fruits than any samsaric experience of formless unity and bliss, one is a permanent realization, the other is a temporary experience. nirvana is not a temporary experience you saying "And exactly because different bikes need different tools, Buddhism won't work for everyone! :-)" clearly shows that you view Buddhism as just another tool to get to the same goal as every other religion when this whole thread, and the whole Advaita thread, is full of arguments against this. Buddhism will work for everyone who has the karma for it because its a universal path not dependent upon culture and ability. there are skillful means for people of all capabilities. I view all other religions that have teachings on compassion to be Bodhisattva paths, you build up a lot of good merit and create conditions for your future enlightenment. all religions are good and rewarding. the point being argued is not that Buddhism is the "only way" and all the other religions take one to hell, or something. no not at all. it just depends on what your goal is, if you yearn for a formless unity with all, well Buddha taught that this is impermanent and does not lead to freedom. if you want to find out for yourself, that is your way, your path. no one will stop you. for many, Buddhism makes intuitive sense. for many, it doesn't, and that's okay. because of karma, it is obvious that Buddhism is not for everyone.

popularity contests are so high-school. 1 vote for gold for being a cocky fucker who knows what he's talking about half the time 1 vote for drew for being an obvious schitzo who is very entertaining 1 vote for Lin for always posting with wisdom and patience 1 vote for Silicon for being annoying, yet rewarding, to debate with 1 vote for dwai, likewise to debate with, except more repetitive. 1 for for Hundun, LaRoi was super cool, whatever happened to him? gave me lots of great advice and 1 vote for Scotty for being so cool and open about his experiences who votes for themselves, man?

you mean like Taoist pick up lines? hmmm.. how about.. Hey baby, I lost my yin, can I have yours? or.. Ever hear of the yin-yang? it's an ancient symbol depicting the mutual inter-dependence of opposites, in other words.. let's fuck. WARNING: All of these techniques are secret and should only be used with the consent of an authorized master.

there are many methods in Tantric Buddhism [Vajrayana] to harness the raw sexual power as an aid to realizing the union of bliss and emptiness simply abstaining from ejaculation without practicing methods to use the energy results in Priests touching little boys

Hey not all Popes were great either, doesn't mean that the Roman Catholic Church is terrible. human history shows that we truly are living in the degenerate age, Kali Yuga, Tibet is no exception. you can not judge Tibet by modern standards. look at America before modernization, look at Europe. things weren't that great either.

you are assuming that all tools only fix 1 bike, what we are trying to say is that there are multiple bikes, the bike is actually dependent upon the specific tool (or view) I've never found anything remotely close to Buddhism in Taoist thought prior to Buddhist inception into China, not wanting to start a historical debate here, just stating my opinion. could be, could be. but how many Taoists come to this realization? we are talking about Taoism as a spiritual path, as a whole. most it seems only want to create an immortal spirit body which clearly shows grasping at a self and not understanding the impermanent nature of reality, and interdependence. others tend to think that the goal is to "merge with the Tao on all levels", i think this is the goal of Kunlun or something like that. none of these goals show understanding of what has been discussed here, so are these people not Taoists then? what defines a Taoist? some here are clearly exceptions and do not seem overly attached to an eternalist concept of Tao, I applaud that

Buddhist non-duality will always be called dualitic by other "non-dual" traditions because there is no one-neess or merging with the all or identifying with everything, Buddhism still has individuality on a relative level. He is modest, he's done a lot and experienced a lot that he doesn't share. alchemy is a big thing in Taoism and he has had full kundalini awakening(s), so I feel that he is qualified to comment here. if you have no direction how do you know where to go? what if you're going forward and hit a tree? well there ya go! i think I made it. except theres so much more beyond the tree.. this is the problem with using vague poetry as your spiritual instruction,