Sunya

hey drew, interesting posts lad, interesting indeed. i like to sit back with a nice cup of earl grey, hot, in hand while reading over your thoughts. i think you're breaking through.. you're close. tell me, have you read the book Taoist Yoga by Charles Luk? i think you'd really like it. check it out

the possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

word. i think i'm a human/supercat hybrid. i love staying up all night and i'm lazy as hell. i'd definetely lick myself if i could too. i have a theory that Bush is a shapeshifting dog and that dogs are taking over the world.

about spontaneous kundalini awakening http://swamij.com/kundalini-awakening.htm not doubting your path buddy, but clearing it up to those who may read this thread and think your path is the only one

if you want to find people having success from NEW, just head over to the astraldynamics forums. try it on a couple days they are moving to a new server

mantis, one of the links you posted was the website of anmol mehta. i emailed him about this discussion, here's what he had to say

ah, so you know that Alan Watts never achieved enlightenment, you must've met him. tell me what was he like? actually, there's really no way to tell if someone is enlightened by meeting them.. so you must've lived through him,, you must've been Alan Watts in a past life. wow, it's great to meet you Mr. Watts, too bad you didn't get the big E, better luck next time I guess. thanks for the heads up vortex. lerner, your analogies don't make sense. one sits in zazen and infront of the TV for different reasons. but one does heroine and one wants to attain bliss for the same reasons. THAT is the point.

you forgot an ancient lineage that can't be verified and a master who could leave any minute just kiddin. winpro, reaidng your posts, if one replaces 'bliss' with heroine you would be a drug addict. nah mean? that is the point i'm trying to make. you're turning into a feel good addict and that i don't think has anything to do with enlightenment or truth.

it was in my philosophy of kunlun thread. people equated bliss to enlightenment in that bliss is your 'true nature' DMT is released by the brain upon death in a massive dose. there is definetely something more to chemicals, so that isn't the point. sheng, i completely agree with you and that is what Jed is trying to say. bliss could be an after effect but it shouldn't be something directly sought. that's really one of the main points Jed makes, its that most spiritual paths go after the side-effects of enlightenment instead of enlightenment itself. he calls spirituality an opiate in that you're so blissed out and happy that you don't care if you have the truth or not. 99% of people are on the path because they just want happiness, not truth.

the point is that being drugged up on the love of god, bliss, whatever has nothing to do with enlightenment. enlightenment is knowing and living through the ultimate truth

there's nothing wrong with compassion or love, but they merely have nothing to do with enlightenment. your analogies are misleading. enlightenment isn't emptying your mind to fill your cup.. it's realizing that there is no cup.

if you stick to NEW, it has everything you would need for energy practice. it rocks, Robert Bruce knows what he's talking about.. no doubt. its really very similiar to chi gung, instead of lower dan tien he calls it 'sub navel storage center'. i'm serious when I say it has everything you need. but so does chi gung, just pick and do it

who is enjoying the kunlun? and who is caring about losing it?

mantis, by sources i didn't mean blogs. show me some real masters saying sex is the only way to awaken kundalini. show me one, and i'll show you 10 that say otherwise. but actually, i know anmol mehta. he lives by me and he knows his stuff. email him and ask yourself if sex is necessary, he will tell you no. yes there is esoteric imagery that hints at sex, but none if it says sex is the only way. also it can be interpreted as male and female aspects of each human pointing to an androgynous person, someone who fully balances his yin and yang aspects. the caduceus is a symbol of kundalini but it does not point to sex.it is the ida and pingala energy pathways going up the spine. i didn't check out all the books you posted, but the one on kalachakra... that is a visualization exercise where you envision yourself as the buddha. it has nothing to do with sex. but i don't doubt tha tantra made its way to tibet and that its been used there. all i'm saying is that to say tantra is the only way to enlightenment is ignorant and singleminded. yes tantra can help for some, but it isn't necessary. i just can't put any faith in your viewpoint when it says that any master, any yogi, any enlightened person who doesn't have sex can't become enlightened. thats just ridiculous, mate. i don't buy it.

did you not read the whole quote you yourself just posted? "we never implement practice with an actual consort." find me another source that says sex is the only way besides samael aun woer this isn't about spiritual pride and i'm not saying that tantric sex can't be very beneficial for spiritual advancement and kundalini. you can even read about it here http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=TantricUnion but when you say sex is the only way and your only source is one person, that is wrong and I want some proof of your claims really though, it's just a healthy debate man. :]

and Gopi Krishna is someone who had a full spontaneous kundalini awakening. you're misinterpreting what spontaneous means. it isn't like a random thing, it's evolution. kundalini is tied to genius, creativity, and the next step in human evolution. also, the dalai lama is celibate and does not have sex, tantric or not. http://www2.hawaii.edu/~tsomo/ordination/hh_q_a.html http://www.kundalinisupportnetwork.com/ this group is a support group for those going through kundalini. it is a real process, and it is happening to many people. these are regular people the information is out there, i'm not going to spoon feed it to you. if you don't believe in spontaneous kundalini awakenings that you are ignorant of what many people are going through and misunderstand what kundalini is. and you still have not read that link i sent you which is the best scientific approach to kundalini i've found http://biologyofkundalini.com you also misunderstand what a shaktipat, or transmission does. it is merely one candle lighting another. the fuse is lit and the kundalini gets to work. it's a process and does not happen over night. you think that kundalini is merely sexual energy, but if that was the case 90% of america would be enlightened. it is more than that. your interpretation of the bible is also just that, an interpretation which you received from a gnostic teacher. you can't know that it is 100% the truth. also, even if this is 100% the interpretation of the bible.. it doesn't matter because its still only one piece in the puzzle. unless you can find every spiritual text talking about white tantric sex then maybe you'll have a point, but you won't. in fact, in India where shakti/kundalini has been practiced for thousands of years.. most Gurus recommend celibacy and sublimating the sexual energy. all the swamis that live in the himalayas alone in caves must have blow up dolls eh? really these neo-gnostic teachings are interesting, but they are only theories. don't get so closed minded that you believe only their teachings to be fact. mantis, buddy, you have some studying to do.

many have spontaneous kundalini awakenings, it is documented. there are many accounts. there are support networks that sprouted up just because of that. and many have risen kundalini without sex, two such individuals being my guru and Robert Bruce. please don't base all your facts off a video, i've seen it. but its only one piece of the puzzle. what you're saying goes against everything that is known about kundalini, don't be so bold without offering proof. oh and i'm sure that quote by dalai lama is misinterpreted, i'm sure he meant "a sweet heart"

i'm receiving shaktipat from a siddha master. http://www.suprememeditation.org/shaktipat.html this isn't nath tradition, in fact there is no practicing of kriyas in this path. the shakti does all the work, all you do is surrender to it/your true inner self i will bring pillars of bliss to my retreat and ask about it

http://biologyofkundalini.com a great site on the topic. there are multiple ways of awakening kundalini. it's pretty late but i'll try to ramble a bit it can happen spontaneously to those that lead a spiritual selfless and loving life, you can practice various yogas .all yoga is meant to awaken kundalini, such as hatha yoga for the body, but more importantly ones focused on breathing exercises (pranayama) and spinal breathing, very similar to microcosmic orbit. there are also various body locks performed wher eyou tighten your ass and stomach, . it's all about the kundalini, babay. there's also the route of receiving the grace of a master. it's called shaktipat (shakti is kundalini and pat means to bestow), that's the route i'm taking. it's called maha yoga or siddha yoga. it's a bit difficult to find a true master though, but it's the easiest, safest, and best way to awaken the kundalini. the idea of kundalini differs though from the taoist (neo-taoist) concepts of immortality. there is no talk of immortality in mystical hinduism, infact getting rid of the ego is imperative before you awaken the kundalini (hence the guru-disciple relationship), but it does tie into the taoist concept of merging with the tao, because that's what happens when you fully awaken the kundalini. there is much emphasis on kundalini in tantra because they view it as the catalyst for awakening. it isn't some strange foreign energy that enters us, but rather it is consciousness,creativity, evolution, you.

so i was thinking... too much probably. who cares about bliss? and why is that being associated with enlightenment? i'm drawn to kunlun because of the energetic development but i don't understand why its being marketed as a fast one way ticket to bliss.. and the word enlightenment is thrown in. to me enlightenment is more than just feeling good, i can just take extasy pill every morning for that. enlightenment to me is dispelling illusion and living in oneness. knowing the truth and living the truth. what does that have to do with bliss? and why does the philosophy of kunlun seem so 'dumbed down'? no offense meant to Max of course, but i feel that questioning our teachers methods are important or else we'd be mindless drones.

Leo, no wonder you're getting such great results. after that length of time you must be pretty open and know what to look for/feel. i'm 22 and have been practicing for longer than a year so i still have a bit to go before i can really progress to the level you're at

matt, i've been trying to ask that question for weeks but have received no responses except that it's a different form of energy and it's 'downward' while kundalini is 'upward' i myself was curious because i'm receiving shaktipat in two weeks and was wondering how it will affect my kunlun practice it is taoist, maybe thats why max didn't want any connection to tantra. but it does seem very transmission based. i haven't received a transmission and have not received any of the effects that the members describe who have received a transmission, and the spontaneous movements sound a lot like kriyas to me. but who knows