Sunya

What I find odd is that Vaj, though overzealous and overbearing, gets a 3 month ban. Alwayson on the other hand was cursing left and right and acting very disrespectful insulting others, and he gets a 2 week ban (this is his 3rd time getting banned too for similar behavior). It is Sean's site after all, but I don't think the punishment fits the crime in either case.

Thank you What do you mean by Vimalakirti 2011? I think that went over my head

The problem isn't that you're smart enough. It's that you're too smart, that is you're conceptualizing too much and that's why you don't understand the meaning of emptiness. It's very simple. Buddhism is a phenomenology. It describes our experiences and everything that makes it up, awareness, sensations, emotions, thoughts, etc. Trying to compare this to science will lead you in a dark and twisted maze. I wouldn't enter that cave if i were you. Science does not describe our experience phenomenologically, and really that's all that Buddhists worry about. The speed of light doesn't really concern us much since it doesn't help us in anyway in our current predicament. Buddhism is entirely pragmatic, and its focus is on getting you to realize your true nature, the nature of awareness, the nature of phenomena, and deepen your insight and integrate that with your experience. The whole essence of the Dharma is no self and dependent origination. The rest is commentary. The point of these teachings is two fold. First it's to get you to break your normal pattern of perception which breaks the world up into solid independently existing objects and have an experience of things as non-things, a unified field as you say. And second, taken deeper, the teachings are meant to even deconstruct that experience because there's a conceptual overlay on top of the nondual experience. This conceptual overlay is a subtle form of grasping at an identity, and this is why Buddhists are so adamant that the point is not to experience a mystical oneness with reality. The point is to see through that oneness into a true non-conceptual experience that sees everything beyond grasping at a limited egoic self and a Grand Divine Self. In short, the Buddhist teachings are beyond self, big and small. You might still not see the difference. You might say that it leads to the same goal. I disagree. Oneness is not the same. Monism (everything is one) is the extreme of duality, so think about this. Can there be one without two? The whole idea of 'one' depends on the idea of duality since it is the polar opposite. It's like going from the idea that everything is in constant flux (Heraclitus) to nothing ever moves (Parmenides). Both are interdependent concepts that do not actually grasp reality and truth because no concept can. Truth is beyond concepts, and the way to realize that truth is to deconstruct all experiences, even the amazing mystical experiences of union with God filled with bliss and love and feelings of knowing everything. Very important experiences, but the tendency to grasp at an identity or 'self' is still there even in those amazing samadhi experiences. These experiences are no inherently pure. So the misinterpretation of that experience will create a lineage uninformed of the actual truth. This is why Buddhism doesn't try to mix with other religions. Their interpretation is off, and our interpretation generates our realization. That is how we integrate and digest our realizations. The point of Dependent Origination is that there's nothing to hold onto. Nothing to grasp and hold and identify with. No reference point, no ground of being, groundlessness all teh way down Further, there is a confusion that emptiness means a void or formless realm that is the source of phenomena, but that isn't true. Dependent Origination leads you to realize that phenomena have no source. Sure there are many realms of experience, even formless ones, but none are self-existent. Many Hindu teachers describe reality as the 'perfume of God' where God is the ground of being and everything arises from that source, but Buddhists would just say that there is only perfume which originates dependently It is the difference between saying 'something is That' and 'something simply is' So while Dependent Origination may seem complex, once you understand it, it's extremely simple.

Historically you are talking about people who lived, with the exception of Einstein, under the authority and suppression of the church. Whether or not they actually believed in God is impossible to know because if you did fancy such thoughts you'd best keep them quiet. For example, Descartes is considered the father of rationalism and science and formulated arguments for the existence of God, but many scholars today see the arguments for God in Meditations to be circular and that he purposely did this. Only the first and last chapters, which are skeptical and deconstructive in method actually reflect his actual thoughts. Another example is George Berkeley who was a bishop of the church. He was a very well-known philosopher, but he also argued for God because he had to. In his very last published work, he pointed to a view that was very mystical which leads many to the conclusion that he didn't actually believe his earlier arguments for God. Scientists are not philosophers, and I'd argue that some who actually said they believe in God during those times had to do it and didn't actually believe it. Or perhaps they did. Doesn't mean they were right. Doesn't matter why Newton studied gravity, but I'm happy he did. Stephen Hawking is considered to be one of the greatest scientific minds of all time, and he's an atheist. He has no merit in the evolution of science? Hardly. He understands quantum physics very well, but you don't. Watching 'What the Bleep do we know' does not count as a course in quantum mechanics, which is not a new theory at all. It's been around since the 50s. There's nothing about quantum mechanics that proves that everything is created by a divine being. Your argument seems to be that science and God are connected because the early scientists grew up in a time where theism was the 'in philosophy' and justified their findings through that lens. The same argument can be applied to scientists today and how they interpret everything through a lens of reductive materialism (quantum physics being no different). You're appealing to authority and not recognizing that scientists are not enlightened.

Science doesn't lead to God at all unless you interpret it that way. Good luck with science. According to neuroscientists, consciousness is an epiphenomenon of matter, just a by product. This is the complete opposite of all mystical traditions. Yogis trust their inner experience and view it as empirical. Neuroscientists view such experiences as dreams and the firing of neurons, nothing mystical or special at all. Your two views are at odds.

I'm more or less a Buddhist and I don't really do that, though I have before. Until I'm enlightened, I see no point in pretending like I carry the truth torch. Inevitably that truth will get mixed up with my own shit, even if I try very hard to keep it pure. It's the method that's most important much more so than the content, and I know running around telling people that they're wrong is not going to make them listen at all So I totally agree with you. This kind of behavior turns off more people than it turns on, and skill-less action is not an aspect of Buddhist practice. I say until you know what you're doing, don't. I still like to debate philosophically and from time to time have a joust or two, but all in good measure. I really do hope you don't develop a negative attitude toward Buddhism because of the actions of a few overzealous people.

Dude, I was just going to post this and was looking for this thread! I'll post it anyway. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/did-wikileaks-confirm-peak-oil-saudi-said-have-overstated-crude-oil-reserves-300-billion-bar

I can't believe this level of disrespect is given free reign on a spiritual forum. Why has this child not been banned? Mods, please do your job. I suggest an IP ban so he can't come back on another username. It's time we rid ourselves of this poison.

Friends, this is why you don't feed trolls. Ignore them and hopefully they will go away.

Calm down before you get banned. What idiocy and when did you prove anything wrong? All I see is a child having temper tantrums

Awesome.. I really like that. thanks Gold, I think certainly here as of late there's been a lot of one-upping going on. For the most part, it certainly is good sometimes to have a philosophical debate about the beliefs and values and interpretations of experiences that we hold to be true, and maybe even joust a bit. But there are certain individuals who joust for the sake of jousting. I don't want to clinically analyze those people, but how they ended up on a spiritual forum is beyond me.

ok, I guess you do. You win the sandbox battle. Time for your nap now. Run off now and let the adults talk

I love your honesty man, and I agree completely with you.

From: http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/study/history_buddhism/buddhism_india/indian_society_thought_time_buddha_.html Alexander Berzin, born in 1944 in Paterson, New Jersey, received his B.A. degree in 1965 from the Department of Oriental Studies, Rutgers University in conjunction with Princeton University; and his M.A. in 1967 and Ph.D. in 1972 from the Departments of Far Eastern Languages (Chinese) and Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University. From 1969 to 1998, he resided primarily in Dharamsala, India, initially as a Fulbright Scholar, studying and practicing with masters from all four Tibetan Buddhist traditions. His main teacher was Tsenzhab Serkong Rinpoche, the late Master Debate Partner and Assistant Tutor of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. He served as his interpreter and secretary for nine years, accompanying him on several world tours. He has also served as occasional Dharma interpreter for His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Alwayson, it's fine to disagree with people, but could you stop acting like a spoiled little child?

But Vaj keeps responding to him and keeps fueling the fire... I said it before, you guys have weird karma, like you were married in a past life or something.

Haven't heard that. Where is that money coming from?

I finally watched this movie. Very well done! It's better than the previous 2! No religion bashing or conspiracy theories. It focuses on facts, and I love how there's interviews with experts who really know what they're talking about. It's very long though and could've been shortened, but there's a lot of content, so it's worthwhile. I hope this video gets spread around.. more people need to watch it!

lol Zen is not a slow method if you know what you're doing.

What I was saying was that without the proper conditions from the world, you would not have that contentment. You're not dependent on Santa Clause, but you are dependent on the environment, food, water, other people for inner peace.

Thanks. If you ask child psychologists, masturbating at 3 is very common.

Is that so? So if you existed in a white room with no doors/windows and no food or water or anything, you'd still have inner peace and contentment? I doubt that. Even if you did, there would be the question of if you are the same person from moment to moment, which you're not.

That's true, but that has nothing to do with your earlier dualistic interpretation of Rigpa as objective reality and Sem as the thoughtform of Obama. "In every teaching the Dalai Lama has given on Mādhyamaka, he always says discrepancy between appearances (thoughtforms) and reality. You can confirm this yourself. This is really the whole point of Mādhyamaka!" It's not. There is no such dualistic distinction between "appearances" and "objective reality" in any school of Buddhism. Why do you equate nondual and nonconceptual with objective and dualistic with thoughtform and appearances?

Ok, since you do like Namdrol (I've given you this link before...) And distinguishing Rigpa from mind is the beginning practice of Dzogchen, lol. Of course that's not all there is to it.

Ok, since you do like Namdrol (I've given you this link before...) And distinguishing Rigpa from mind is the beginning practice of Dzogchen, lol. Of course that's not all there is to it.