devoid

Haha - and here I was thinking all the time that the reason for me not being more successful in chasing skirts when I was younger was because I hadn't applied Sun Tzu Joking aside, thanks for popping in occasionally when you find the time - I am thrilled that we've got such a nice discussion going. If you rediscover your old notes, I'd love to hear about them - also thanks (to all of you) for your thoughts on the thread placement

Hi TaoIsTruth, The funny thing with Chakras and Dantians is that they do not correspond one-to-one to any body part or "physical body geography". In some chakra systems (of typically 5 chakras or more), the two you describe are separate chakras, yet in the dantian system there are three - the one you talk about is the middle one - both are valid, subject what you want to achieve: If you're trying to achieve things of spiritual nature I recommend focus on the are the breast bone (lower part, i.e. between the nipples as you suggest). If on the other hand, you are trying to locate the center of your torso, probably aiming a bit lower gets you to the solar plexus. In terms of anatomical layout you have the body of the breast bone, then the xiphoid process and finally, the solar plexus. So, until you find a reason to focus more north or south, you could consider focusing on the middle, where they meet (the xiphoid process)

Ditto! What a great story and so true.

Very nice perspective - thanks, Humbleone!

Indeed - at least as long as we restrict ourselves interpreting the treatise to dealing with war. I guess this is a good time for me to continue on my sub-thread theme on interpreting Sun Tzu's Art of War as the Art of Dealing with (complex) Challenges: In this way, this chapter is about the strategy of how to deal with challenges. In the subtitle of this thread I embedded a cue for my thoughts on this: I wrote: "on Engaging Ones Challenges". In this sense, I see winning as a matter of succeeding in dealing and engaging with the challenge at hand. As an example, in the microcosmic perspective, winning oneself over is often a challenge that must dealt with in a delicate manner taking into account that it satisfies the conditions of complex challenge as suggested in the discussion of chapters 1 and 2. IMO this treatise is as great for that as it is for philosophizing on war itself.

Hi Manitou, I don't think I share this view, but I find it interesting nonetheless Thanks for clarifying.

Yes. Winning based purely holistic understanding and strategic thinking - it doesn't get much better than this!

Hi Manitou, Very nice post - I really enjoyed it! I have just one clarifying question: When you say 'we are all one' I guess that in the taoist sense you mean that 'we all originate from the source' rather than e.g. you and I are a union of some sort (unless if borrowing / mixing with New Age ideas)?

I know what you mean Marblehead, I guess we all have both sides in us - and occasionally they will quarrel about who is right - at the end of the day I believe there are many situations in real life where one has to compromise one for the other, no matter how much one would like to satisfy both As such, I guess that we say the one who generally sacrifices pragmatism to idealism can be said to be righteous and have a high moral compass whereas one who constantly satisfies ideology for pragmatism can be said to be opportunistic and may even be accused of being self-serving and cynical. I'll certainly admit to all of those (including the both the flattering as well as the less flattering ones ) Somehow, the old Walt Disney: Donald Duck cartoons with Donald's inner angel and inner devil (each on one shoulder) trying to tell him what to do springs to mind

...and one can only assume that the levels are defined more or less arbitrarily by some computer game type of immortal who knows what levels are all about

Firstly, apologies to join into this discussion a bit late. Thanks to everybody all for all the great translations and comments! It is interesting to see how the different translations can be so far apart in their conclusions on this chapter. I believe we can divide the translators into two main camps: Idealists Pragmatists While the idealists tell the reader to be moderate in ones own pursuits and desires, the pragmatists seem to suggest that although the ideal is both easy to understand and highly desirable, it is far from reality - a kind of Utopia, if you will.

Very good, Everything, You have an excellent sense of smell. The only problem is, you don't have a clue about how to use it for anything good or enjoyable. Your remark about lips tasting like a gun barrel makes me think that you are suicidal: bored with yourself and your situation. Instead of asking yourself what you can do change your situation you search the net and ask questions while you think of the most recent pleasures that spring to mind related consumption or fornication. As you said, it's time to wake up. It's time to turn off the computer, get rid of that gun which by now is more of liability to you than a means of protection, turn off the tv and computer and go outside and experience life. Force yourself to take a daily walk until you remember what joy and pleasure in the little things is. My guess is that your feet will get sore before you find the answer, but do persist. Buy new shoes if the old ones get too trotten - make this your daily habit and walk as much as time permits given your must-do chores. Good luck with finding your center. You are so close to it, yet so far away from it.

Indeed Marblehead, How could one possibly know that one is treading the path if one never knew the meaning of being lost?

Good question, Everything, I believe the answer is focus: Focus on the moment Focus on each of the senses: Smells, Sounds, Taste, Texture, Touch, etc. -in other words: Don't only give your senses to food an sex, Enjoy (or simply sense) the wind, the air in your nostrils, the scents of the surroundings, the feeling of being alive, your heart beating, the skin prickling, the sounds in your ears, etc. Meditation on the senses (one at a time) can help you sharpen a sense which may have become numb to the conscious self. Happy sensing!

Hi Friends, Thank you all for the great discussion we started based on chapter 1. Here's chapter 2:

Sorry for quoting myself here, but I need this to provide the continuation I promised for Chapter 2: Continuing to substitute war with challenges, this chapter tells us about the issues we can face in dealing with them: When we try to tackle too big a challenge upfront we risk running into trouble. As a result, we may not be able to deal with the challenge because we are being worn down in the long run due to fatigue setting in when the process becomes protracted. Dealing swiftly with challenges is of course most efficient, yet, when faced with the big ones, we must start working on parts of the challenges. In doing this we should make sure to celebrate the small victories along the way - especially the first ones as they boost morale. I could go on like this.... I am truly awed (although not shocked ) at how universally applicable this chapter is as well as how inspiring it is to look at challenges through the specter of Sun Tzu. Feel free tof ask or comment if you want to discuss any of this chapter or my interpretations (also should you chose to disagree ).

Nice chapter, and nice posts Manitou and Marblehead Indeed, humility yet IMO also temperance and moderation are important takeaways on this one. I am always stunned at how good the TTC is at painting a picture of the importance on balance on so many fronts that it eventually draws a complete and coherent picture of harmony.

Very good, Marblehead, After careful reconsideration of this chapter, yours and other posts I am absolutely convinced that the taotology of this chapter is that it is the source of maxims. As such, chapter 23 is the one out of which spring the two, of which (again) spring the many (maxims) - here's another one: He who posts on taobums is a taobum!

Interesting Rainbow_Vein, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for letting me know

Hi Robert, Sorry it took a bit longer than expected. In reading up on ostheopathy (which has also interested me for time) I came across Jean-Pierre Barrel and his system of visceral manipulation. I should say upfront haven't had priviledge to any of his books yet, but am considering it. His basic premise is that of an ostheopath, i.e. that the body basically knows how to repair itself, if one lets it: i.e. by removing any obstacles (tensions) that build up and prevent the natural flow. The principle of this reminds me very much of TCM, yet at the same time it is different because most osteopaths are more interested in tension / release and the use of trigger points and anatomy trains like the ones already discussed (on a side-note: a couple of other models exist than that of Myers, but this type of model). As such, my understanding is that Barrel advocates a very firm understanding of anatomy and looks at any chained / connected relationships between body parts, tensions and diseases, rather than the meridians of TCM. As part of the tension release strategy, he uses the breath of the patient (in / out) to help establish tension and release - very much like in most thought-through qigong exercises (I know many people on this site will disagree, but it is intereserting to remind ourselves that many Chinese people choose to translate qigong with 'breathing exercise'). As for the qigong set that sprang to mind I was thinking of the Muscle and Tendon Changing Qigong, i.e. the Yi Jin Jing. As such, I guess most complete sets will help out - some of my personal whole-body favorites include Ba Duan Jin: Eight-section / Brocade Qigong and Wu Qin Xi: Five Animals Qigong. Finally, some of my own thoughts for what they're worth. I see the human body as a complex machine of many virtual layers on top of some very physical layers. Just like the computer has no browser or word processor on the hardware level, these can be programmed onto an operating system which runs on top of the hardware. Perhaps the meridians and their acupuncture / trigger points are really a result of various systems running on the bodily hardware, i.e. a kind of application programmers interface which can be used to make abstracted calls to the underlying hardware? Sorry if this post got a bit long, but I wanted to follow up as promised.

Hi Marblehead, I think there have been many excellent replies to this post. I am still looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this chapter, though.

Hi Friends, I always considered the works of Sun Tzu (aka Sun Wu or Sunzi) fantastic. In spite of the title of this great treatise suggesting a celebration of war, I am always humbled to find that the strategies presented therein hold true for so many things in life other than war. With these words, I would like to kick off a discussion of the first of thirteen chapters in The Art of War - I challenge you to join in!