tyler zambori

Why should anybody suffer humiliation for the truth? If there is no self, how can they defend it?

What would be the Taoist alternative to Vipassana meditation?

The term "relcalicrant junk" is not very scientific, and that guy doesn't strike me as terribly scientific either.

Longrhythm, Isn't Taosim about aligning oneself with something greater, rather than transcending anything? I immediately liked this way better, because it has more respect for that which "needs to be transcended." I never found it possible to turn myself over to the mercy of a higher power. If you can't yet experience a "higher power" directly, then it is just a concept to you, that's all. How can a mere concept direct your life? It can't. I dunno, to me telling yourself you have to achieve self-mastery to get over "Just Do It" by "just doing it" doesn't seem to work either. I started getting interested in Taoism because of acupressure - I have this book called "energy Tapping," (which is not what I'm going with), in which the author said something about this business of being stuck. I don't have the passage in front of me, but he said something like this: When we have these issues that we can't change, even when we know exactly what the problem is and what we need to do, then it's an energetic blockage problem. I have these issues myself. I'm actually going on with a different approach - Jin Shin Do, because it seems to make more sense to me to hold the acupressure points until they have a real effect, rather than just tap quickly. I'm just getting started with this. I think this Teeguarden lady is a brilliant writer, and her books seem to be a good introduction to Taoism too - despite the Japanese name of the practice. HTH! Tyler

What is an oax? OX maybe?

And what's wrong with sleeping with rock stars?

And I guess men's lives are not their own either because they have to support everyone else. How long a go have we moved past these traditional ways of seeing things? Geez. It doesn't have much to do with reality, especially not with the reality of the "nuclear family" these days.

You know, after seeing that guruphiliac blog, it occurs to me that a big part of the problem there is seeing the ego/ body-mind as something to be transcended. That, and the friggin guru-worship thing that the Brahmins love so much. I wonder if starting from a viewpoint of aligning rather than transcending is a better way to get started, right from the beginning. I think I'm gonna like this.

How could the dried form of a plant in nature "contain the original imprint" of a human organ?

Really....when *did* they have a true spiritual tradition? Sometime around Patanjali or something? This would have to be long after the horse-sacrificing nerf-herding phase. PS I already know about the ones that escaped, but when was there a "true spiritual tradition" that was not one of those?

Oh, I like that better. I don't have that gland anyway, and I don't miss it .

Then I simply declare than you have in no way countered anything she said. (shrug) I have taken your suggestion, and posted a yoga sutra commentary comparison in my personal practice forum - to show what I'm talking about. Sorry makyea.

I think it's a dead korean link.

Put them behind a screen, and they just act meaner, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what the subject is, they just act meaner than in real life. I've seen it, from forum to forum.

3dbob, You are completely missing Hajimesaito's point. Can you effectively counter her argument while staying on point? I'm not seeing it. Also there does not need to be any Hindu pope. The culture keeps its dysfunctionalities just fine without one.

Besides hatha yoga, the Hatha Yoga Pradipika only gives instructions on a few side practices: pranayama and moola bandha. It does not go into *how to meditate.* Furthermore, it is presented in the same tired old aphoristic format that Europe got over after the printing press came out. It is in the Yoga sutra that we actually start to get some instruction about *how to meditate.* To quote wikipedia: “The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali is a foundational text of Yoga.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_sutra And also: “In the Yoga Sutras, Patanjali prescribes adherence to eight "limbs" or steps (the sum of which constitute "Ashtanga Yoga", the title of the second chapter) to quiet one's mind and achieve kaivalya. The Yoga Sutras form the theoretical and philosophical basis of Raja Yoga, and are considered to be the most organized and complete definition of that discipline. The division into the Eight Limbs (Sanskrit Ashtanga) of Yoga is reminiscent of Buddha's Noble Eightfold Path; inclusion of Brahmaviharas (Yoga Sutra 1:33) also shows Buddhism's influence on parts of the Sutras.[15] “ That's from the Philosophical roots and influences section. You are glossing in order to sound authoritative. Yes, it is based on Samkya philosophy, but again, yes it is meant to be a practical instruction book. At least originally. And they do a crappy job. It pretty much works if you are living in a cave with a guru and washing his dishes, but that's about it. As I have said before, elsewhere on this forum, they are always talking around something they can't even describe. The Yoga Sutra is not a book on theory. You are trying to be an apologist. When the great majority of attempts to write commentary on the yoga sutras end up with bad translations and very awkwardly written commentaries, that is saying something, and it's not saying something about the reader. Combine that with a religious attitude, and by that I mean: "accept this badly written tripe because in ancient days somebody who was really trying to help people wrote the original, and someday if you're good you might understand it," then you have a recipe for a lot of arrogant hogwash. Which you do exhibit, I might add. The reason they do not bother to write better, is frankly because of the inherent elitism in the culture. “Hey, those who are truly worthy will study and suffer until they get it.” I've seen this attitude in more than just books, I've seen it in just how people behave. It's endemic in the culture. They really do think they are the ones, of all Eastern religions, who really have something to teach, and we all should listen to them. See...you have it yourself. And also, the typical recommendation is to practice Karma and Bhakti yoga before even trying to read the Yoga Sutras, which I have my own problems with. It seems to me you are just trying to do the best you can to sound like you know it all, without much basis. Her external imperfections hardly mar her inner beauty? You are basically just telling us to take a religious approach to it, so it looks to me like you fit right in over there. Why not go find a nice Hindu forum to hang out on? And now you are insinuating that I only complain and am not serious about a spiritual path. I would ask you why you need to take it so personally, why you have such a strong need to belittle people who don't see it the way you do, on a forum that is not even about that particular practice? Why does it strike so at your insecurity? Sounds to me like you aren't very secure at all. PS: please let's not get into the Buddhist influence on the yoga sutras, that is not why I quoted that bit.

Thanks RyanO, I didn't know somebody's done actual studies about it, but it makes sense. @marblehead, that;s funny, I guess a windshield or car on a truck is most certainly a kind of screen too, a fore-runner to the internet. It's slightly more contained and anonymous than encountering someone face to face on the street. So maybe one day when we are all riding around in transparent bubbles instead of vehicles, that phenomenon will be done away with. For the internet, I dunno, maybe they would have to have instant teleconferencing bubble-quads instead of screens.

When you do get to that point, Rev. Jaganath Carrera wrote a very good Yoga Sutra commentary. It's the only non-buddhist influenced one I've found, that was close to being useful. I say this after buying and trying to read many of them. Even his own teacher said that Patanjali was with him when he wrote it. Gled to be of help, take care.

Makyea, I would have agreed with you at one point - I used to think, well, the culture might have problems, but surely the enlightened people have risen above it, but after years of suffering and personal experience, I slowly started to piece together what is wrong with it and why. I'm not just pulling it out of my butt. And it is a little different than being for or against war, because wars are not started with every single individual's agreement. Participating in a dysfunctional culture, however, is something that is done on an individual basis. And no, I'm not talking about Brahmins having to cleanse themselves when entering certain places, I'm talking about Brahmins having to cleanse themselves before they can have contact with other Brahmins again, *because* they had been traveling in places with non-Hindu people. And the only reason they ever improved, was because of religious competition. No improvement, no protein, there ya go. I'm just interested in giving *you* a different view on the Hindus than the people who are trying to promote it to you. Every culture has its quirks, but at least the Chinese had a meritocracy, and were happier overall because of it, and I expect that will be reflected in Taoism. Never underestimate the power of the influence of the culture over that culture's religion. I learned that lesson the hard way.

So says the anonymous author who flaunts his credentials without showing them. You now want to back out - good! Again with the self-righteousness - how do you know I am basing my opinion only on a couple books I have read? I'm not. What you say is not valid - it is a ridiculously biased and uninformed statement about the caste system in India. You probably believe that any statement that the Hindus came up with the caste system all on their own is all a lie. Oh wait, you did say that. So you have nothing more to say - good, that's very good.

Wow you really know a lot more than a professor who they let lecture at Oxford, who has also done serious and dedicated study. I don't think your favorite writer's Betascript Publishing comes up to the standard of Cambridge University press. If cast was blown out of proportion by the British, why are they still having problems with that even after the British are gone? And why were they having problems with it way before the British got there? They used to be even worse - at one point in their history, any Brahmin who traveled outside of a Hindu area, had to physically purify himself before he would be allowed back in, because of having had contact with those unpure non-Hindus. That is just plain creepy dysfunctional ethnocentrism, and it sunk into the culture and stayed there, and influenced everything. Sounds to me like you are the one who needs a lot more education, but you already think they are "the great ones." Your argument is all over the place,you already have shown your own bias, and it looks to me like you're just mad that I don't love them as much as you do. Learn not to be so co-dependent, will you? This is not a Hindu forum, so maybe you should go to one where nobody will say anything against the Hindus. What is it with the self-righteousness around here? I'm noticing quite a bit of it today.

Where does that idea come from? I'd really like to know. Does come from any particular religion? Carl Jung? What?

Personally, I've found it useful already to do the same, although I do have the TTC now. On the practical level, it helps to get book recommendations and such, and these things can be found by doing some searching in addition to asking. I have already edited my "books to buy" list quite a bit, and have been re-prioritizing it. I find it helpful to get started with something clear and practical that a person could get started with right away. Scriptures are good too, but it takes time to get into this.

Hi Makyea, I will PM you, thanks.