elmer

psychologists have known for some time that our expectations can greatly influence, if not create, our sensations. they did an experiment with wine aficionados. they used food coloring and changed white wine into red. they also took cheap, crappy wine and packaged it in beautiful and expensive bottles. In both cases, the aficionados described either how exquisite the crushed red grapes were, etc/etc... or how fine the quality of wine was... as i read many posts describing various experiences (both physical and mental) with certain meditative practices, links to texts or masters that describe the various sensations or "expected" psychic sensations... a lot of me wonders whether or not we are in a sense, creating our sensations... anyone else thought of it that way? here's a link to the article that describes the psychology behind it... http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/02/24/grape_expectations/

...It is a shame that people should be driven to hopelessness over their current limitations. I feel that human potential is boundless and is there to be developed. We just need to go about it the right way. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- to an extent, we are like remote controls.... ask anyone who's suffered from a stroke. once part of the brain is damaged, that part of their "human potential" is also damaged. look at Ram Dass, renowned yogi and spiritual leader of the 60's (?), who suffered a stroke and lost all his powers of eloquence/locution as his stroke rendered him hemiplegic and with expressive aphasia. or... children who grow up in physically, sexually, or emotionally abusive households develop into adults with limitations to emotional growth or with the neurological wiring to seek activities and situations that perpetuate the same physical and emotional abuse they grew up with. activities and situations that should be "normal and good" for them, actually feel "foreign and uncomfortable." there's research that shows this not only on a sociological perspective but now from its underlying neurophysiological/chemical changes... now, this doesn't mean these individuals can never, "improve" their situation. Ram Dass continues to speak and inspire those around him. through therapy, abused children are able to change their altered neurological patterns. and... half the fun of life (for me) is to try to change the "boundaries" to my potential. i feel like a pompous ass for saying this (partly because i've just come to the above realization now as i write this), but yea, some people will be limited mentally in what they can do. but i'm ok with that, because they can always "try" to improve it. after they're tired from trying, then maybe they should just change their environment so the "limitations" won't be so... awkward. we all want to improve our abilities, but there's no way in hell that i'll be able to run a sub 4 minute mile (especially as i get older)

I didn't mean to infer that if we create these sensations, they are not real... just because we create these sensations doesn't preclude their reality... We all know that buddhists do care about things, even though EVERYTHING is impermanent. So impermanence isn't the reason why they don't give a rats a** about it. It's the "chasing" that they try to avoid.... I'd say it's healthy to use these sensations as possible indicators of progress or change, but just don't "chase" after it and let whatever happens, happen.

binaural beats for brain entrainment help the brain "resonate" at the brain wave frequency that occurs during sleep, alertness, relaxation, or concentration. binaural beats are all over the internet for free... you shouldn't have to pay for it. many of them MUST be listened to via headphones, as each ear listens to a different frequency and the brain "combines" these 2 frequencies together to get the frequency appropriate for sleep, concentration, relaxation, etc... this may be helpful to use during either meditation or just prior to sleep. although it doesn't get rid of your supposed "cause" of your insomnia- the worry/anxiety of becoming insomnic again, it is a good "prop" so you will have something to physically resort to when dealing with the worry.

my brother-in-law is feeling depressed and posted this on his facebook status tonight: brother-in-law: "has lost the point to all of this. What the fuck do we think we're doing here? Can I check out now? I think I'm done." i immediately thought a zen koan would be a helpful response, as koans can undermine the rational approaches to life that can sometimes lead to these types of ill feelings... i.e. trying to "find" the reason to life... anyone got any good koan responses/suggestions or just good zen quotes? thanks!

hahaha... the pythons are an enlightened group, are they not? what type of quigong walking do you practice/have done? i've done back step before, but am curious as to other "types" and if you feel any different from each respective walk?

a few months ago (?), i had posted a new topic titled, "expectations creating sensations," which refers to exactly what you're asking about. check it out via search and see if it interests you. at the beginning of my post, i probably would have said your expectations may have created/influenced these sensations. at the end of my post, my opinion is that it really doesn't matter. what matters is that you have these sensations to work with and whether or not you feel these expectations/sensations are helping you reach whatever goals you have set for yourself. to me, it's not that important what you "label" these sensations- qui, side effects, or hallucinations... it's what you "do" with them. but yea... it's really important to practice this sober as well.

yea... i remember that book. loved it! makes me want to pull it off my bookshelf for a read... i was really close to posting a link to monty python's "always look on the bright side of life," sung by a bunch of men hanging on crucifixes. i thought it was hilarious and quite fitting, but my wife wouldn't let me post it because FB family and friends would all think heathen-ly thoughts of me. if you haven't seen it, check it out on youtube. about 3 min's long and totally worth it.

are you saying that "it's not infinite" is like a tautology, where, umm... nothing ever is? and, is it "pun intended" for your good sayin' ?

wow. very worthy indeed!!! i watched it all and loved it. thanks for the link.

ok. i don't know if anyone is reading this anymore, but i've come to the conclusion that expectations creating our sensations isn't such a "bad thing" entirely. so what if our expectations make us think that white wine taste like red? or cheap wine taste expensive? or... our expectations make us feel "bubbling sensations at the soles of our feet," "tingling at the top of our head," "external energies or forces moving us around like rag dolls or marionettes?" well... i do have an issue with the last one.... lol. anyways, unexpected things can happen when we allow our expectations (albeit, faulty/misinformed/deluded) to create our sensations... sometimes they can make us psycho, but other times it can make cruddy situations feel better, annoyances become opportunities... etc.... etc... you get the picture. so maybe, sometimes the "true nature" of something isn't necessarily that something, but actually how it interacts with you, how you experience it, and how it changes you...

ok. i don't know if anyone is reading this anymore, but i've come to the conclusion that expectations creating our sensations isn't such a "bad thing" entirely. so what if our expectations make us think that white wine taste like red? or cheap wine taste expensive? or... our expectations make us feel "bubbling sensations at the soles of our feet," "tingling at the top of our head," "external energies or forces moving us around like rag dolls or marionettes?" well... i do have an issue with the last one.... lol. anyways, unexpected things can happen when we allow our expectations (albeit, faulty/misinformed/deluded) to create our sensations... sometimes they can make us psycho, but other times it can make cruddy situations feel better, annoyances become opportunities... etc.... etc... you get the picture. so maybe, sometimes the "true nature" of something isn't necessarily that something, but actually how it interacts with you and how you experience it.

cool... so is there a good quote from the basic dharmas related to being a human being in the present, void of any relation to the past or future? ...

now that's an idea.... "Taobum Questions..." or "just Ask Taobums" Q: "How long is a meter?" A: "as long as you want it to be... Q: "What should I get my honey for Valentines?" A: Nothing. if she loves you, she'll love you anyways... well.. i'm not sure about that last example. lol

scotty.... i agree. the power in spirituality is that it fills the void where reason can no longer provide answers. if reason can't provide the answers, sometimes an "experience" will. as such, we get the phrase, "the proof is in the pudding... " if zen koans can release us from the "limitations" of rationality, they become tools to offer us that "direct experience," that lays beyond our reasoning... i'm sure you're familiar with this... but i just like writing it, because it makes me think a little clearer. btw, i ran across this neat little story. i'm not such a big fan of the explanation at the end, but i just like the story. http://www.anmolmehta.com/blog/2007/06/26/true-meaning-of-zen-of-life-in-just-3-words/

kate, thanks for your advice. my wife actually had already talked to him tonight, but i'll make sure to call him tomorrow and do it myself. it's funny and ironic, but if you take a step back and view "the internet," i'd say a great number of people use it to either ask for advice or tell others how do deal with their lives... i mean, just look at this forum!

can something be physically unreal? staying true to the original theme of this question, by experiences, I mean any sensations that one may have while practicing...

I like your approach... Usually we don't question the "conditionality" of things unless they bother us. So, perhaps it's better to just "live life" with the understanding that you can always change your experience (when needed) by understanding what role your perception is playing in determining how you feel.

i've also been told not to "expect" in order to realize the "now" moments of our life. but part of me feels that our brains are to a certain extent wired to "expect." knowledge and wisdom entail the concept of "expectation" or... causality. when "A" happens, expect "B." or, when learning new concepts or labels, we expect them to present in a consistent manner, so that we can act accordingly/appropriately in the future. however, i absolutely agree that understanding how expectations affect not only our sensations, but OTHER people's sensations, will lead to greater "mental freedom." meditation helps in shining a spotlight on my "pre-determined expectations." do you have any specific exercises (mental or physical) that help you with this?

i really like the quote by salvatore... thanks! if certain effects are consistently caused through repetition of the exercise, then that's a good exercise (for me!). however, if a majority of us get the SAME effects without knowing ahead of time what those effects are to be, then that seems a bit more... "sincere." so much of internal martial art's visualization, verbage, and philosophy will indubitably influence your experiences. but one can argue, that's what makes it "what it is," and that's what makes it fun.

the effects can definitely be "real" in the sense that the brain experiences them that way. as to whether or not they are desirable, would depend on who's judging... i just found the article, so i'll edit my original post and include a link, in case anyone's interested...

sometimes developing instincts are good. Particularly if in the context of performance based activities. However I'm willing to bet that true "masters" of an activity know which of their actions are instinctual and thus are able to deftly alter there actions based on the circumstances.