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Hiya, you might find interesting these: Heaven, Earth, and Man in the Book of Changes, by Hellmut Wilhem and Bradford Hatcher's work on the Yijing, available for free at www.hermitica.info (his "matrix" translation offers multiple english words for each chinese character, thereby trying to sidestep translation problems...) This is all very interesting. Something that's been niggling me for a while- when talking of the three forces Heaven, Man, Earth, the gradation between them suggests that there is a hierarchy at work, which has all sorts of implications. Then again, there is the saying, "the three are one". So it seems there is some kind of 'chicken-or-egg' paradox at play here, depending on how one looks at it. So is there hierarchy in the Daoist view of the world? Or is the ideal to escape the world of numbers and abide in the absolute and unchanging?

That's the spirit! Have you heard of this guy- Bradford Hatcher? Very intelligent and in touch. His writings about YiJing studies and his translation are very interesting- check em out- My link One of the important points he raises is the importance of CONTEXT when looking at old texts... Who wrote them and who were they written for? Can we really relate with what kind of thinking these texts were written from--- Look at the difference in language structures, the chinese language still being in a stage of flux, still very much pictorial. Can this be adequately translated into our entirely different language? (and with all our own funky language conditionings!) We also need to consider the culture that these texts were written in- most/all were not written for the common man, but for the educated circles that spiral out from around the emperor... and what of the book burning? and the reliability of those who held these texts to memory? (similar in time to Jesus' words) I'm mostly reiterating some of what's written about in the link, but it seems to me important when considering what Daoism is in the West, cos it ain't what it was in the East 5000 years ago. Hence the trailblazing- hats off to you sire!

One of the things that was brought back to me the other day was how within indigenous cultures, the ceremonies that initiate the youth into adulthood were considered hugely important, for many reasons. In modern culture, this form of initiation is for the most part not only lacking, but also it would seem that this lack is causing a whole lot of problems. So, it would be interesting to hear some thoughts about this. Was there a defining moment in your life that shifted you from being a kid to being an adult? What changed? For the most part, it seems that instead of one definite move into adulthood, we, as moderners/westerners make many little steps, backtracking here and there, and often end up as people of adult age, who have some or many immature aspects to ourselves. From my understanding, the time when indigenous communities decided a certain youth needed to go through their rite of passage, was very much related to when they started showing strong interest in the opposite sex. It also seems to be very much tied into our relationships with our parents and learning how to live independently from them. (something which is also another layer of initiation for the parents and mother particularly). So it is not the concept of shedding one's childhood and transforming into an adult, but adding a new layer to the circle, kind of like a ring within the trunk of a tree. In every culture things are done differently, so it is interesting to ask how this kind of thing featured in Eastern cultures. The trinity of Confucianism/Daoism/Buddhism seems to offer quite a different take on it, with the emphasis not so much on being an adult, but on the cultivation of the spiritual awakening and learning to live according to it's virtue... What are you thoughts/experiences?

Hey, Some interesting views shared here, it's a big issue isn't it? There are a number of things I think expand the idea of what an 'initiation into adulthood' is beyond the usual rites of passage kids encounter growing up anyway. Although the modern rites of passage do bring more independence and to a degree, responsibility, I don't think they always bring maturity- mature ways of thinking, speaking, and acting. There needs to be some form of guidance about this, and traditionally guidance NOT from the parents... So first off there is the trouble of defining what 'adult' means... In this context it is not someone who's over the age of 21 ( or any other age). They say with age comes wisdom, and although this ain't true for a lot of people, the general gist is that someone whose gone through life and encountered the usual problems, if they're are lucky, will have learnt from these problems and how best to handle them. In turn, we can learn from these people. In modern culture there has been a shift towards the individual, making it on his or her own. This means we don't necessarily have the support from elder generations, and because the elder generations are mostly in the same boat, they often can't give the right support... ( and young uns can be a pretty sceptical bunch too) So what's to do when not only are there no initiations but also no one one who really knows what should be done in initiation? What makes the indigenous cultures so important when it comes to these matters, is that they have established traditions that have developed and matured SLOWLY over many generations, and in doing have mature wisdom and the means to perpetuate it. One of these means is the 'initiation of the youth'. Also, and I think this comes strongly into the fold- indigenous cultures are more embedded into their environment, more at home within the natural world, more connected to its rhythms and melodies. This, for me, as a 'moderner', is something I've long felt grieved about- being cooped up in a smoggy city, never being able to see the horizon or the stars, it is a sad state of arrears city folk have to deal with. Now, I don't wan't to idealise indigenous cultures TOO much, because this way of life certainly wasn't perfect, but the wisdom that has been cultivated is undoubtedly a precious thing. From what I can gather, one of things which makes this wisdom so precious and also helps us understand the term 'adult', is the recognition of the inherent intelligence within nature, which also happens to be the very source of wisdom and also the source of OUR life. So through initiation there is a sprouting of our understanding of the layered nature of ourselves within and paralleled to the layered nature of the world around us. And the overlapping of these layers forms every relationship that we can have in life- our relationship with our partners, our relationships with our family, with animals, with our food, with the ground we walk upon, the Earth that supports us, and in some sense, most importantly, the relationship with ourselves... So, it is not a simple thing, initiation. But, we can I think assume that it does entail learning to cultivate our relationship with the natural world around us... Whether this can be done when we, as a culture, are so disconnected from nature, is another question. I agree that spending a weekend camping ain't gonna cut it. My guess is that it needs to be a community effort, and also that help is needed from wise people, or the indigenous wisdom-keepers...

My link

My link My link We can't escape "the BLOB"!!! The advent of the internet and the 'technological revolution' is amazing in many, many ways; but it also carries with it a very powerful and potentially destructive effect. The student-teacher relationship has always carried these problems- ever heard of the expression- 'to teach the student is to starve the teacher'...

Hiya Some thoughts- Finding a practice that's suits your constitution and temperament is like finding a person you can really be a friend with rather than some one who you can just get on with. On a further level finding the right way to do the practice at any particular time is like harmonising that friendship even more. So, spending some moments before you begin your practice to LISTEN to your body and see what it needs I find really helpful- if I'm feeling cold or stagnant I do some more vigorous things- shaking and slapping the body is great! If I'm feeling in the flow and quiet I tend to make my practice more meditative and still- sitting or static standing postures- if I feel OK in my body but my mind is agitated/bustling I might do some taichi or slow moving qigong. Adaptability with qigong is a wonderful thing, but unfortunately is hard to teach because it's better done individually rather than in a group. A

Malidoma Some. Of Water and the Spirit.

There is no love greater than love with no object. For then you, yourself, have become love itself.

Do you remember how you came into existence? You may not remember because you arrived a little drunk. Let me give you a hint: Let go of your mind and then be mindful. Close your ears and listen!

Any ideas about the Five Elements here? The circle at the bottom?

Yep, no Bagua either, but i think this might be intentional (as the title suggests). It's a curious one. The atypical 5E chart is what gets me- what does this 6th circle represent? And why connected to both Fire and Water but in between Wood and Metal? As a side-note, I was surprised to hear that the the famous TaiChi yin-yang symbol has only been around for about 700 years. And I'm not sure about this (I find it hard to believe) but the pre and post heavenly Bagua symbols (with the trigrams in the 8 cardinal directions) are said to have only been around for some 1000 years or so... This diagram above and it's associated text was a forerunner to the rise of neo-confucianism, dated to around 1000-1050AD. a

A distinguishment should be made between different kinds of words, or rather, different kinds of speech. Although what you say is certainly valid, I think it may only apply to the more base forms of language. Robert Svoboda has written an excellent article on the Vedic understanding of this- http://www.drsvoboda.com/sacredspeech.htm As I understand it, once a certain level of cultivation has been made, words, whether composed of pure intention, mentally verbalised, visualised or externally spoken, can be infused with qi and awareness, and thereby act as conduits of truth. When it comes to Empty Mind or Buddha Heart, I guess cutting out all words/thoughts/chatter is very important. But whatever the case, we are surrounded by sound, and cannot help but join in just by the pumping of our hearts. Everything is continually singing out it's nature, why not be creative with it?

I'm curious to ask- does anyone have much knowledge about pre-modern (pre PRC) medical qigong? As far as I know, a lot of medical qigong styles have developed in tandem with the qigong hospitals that sprung up in the 1950's. As with the rest of Traditional Chinese Medicine, during this period a great effort was made to 'modernise' TCM and bring together various theories. Although in many ways beneficial, the major problem with this was the removal of 'Shen' from the picture. Anything related to the more spiritual aspects of Daoism was removed from the curriculum. This led to a more 'syndrome-based' form of TCM, which is in many ways quite similar to Western prescriptive medicine eg. patient is diagnosed with Liver Yang Rising, use this combination of acupoints/herbs to subdue Liver Yang. Jerry Alan Johnson's medical qigong books are generally regarded as the authority on this topic. Much of the material in the books stems from how qigong healing was taught in the hospitals, and in many ways shares the same modus operandi of TCM diagnosis of syndromes. Unlike acupuncture, herbs, or tuina, there don't seem to be any pre-modern books written about medical qigong. This has led me to wonder how much of medical qigong is a modern development? I assume that a lot of the healing qigong skills were highly coveted and remained concealed within family traditions. It would also seem that many of the Daoist and Buddhist temples held their own qigong healing traditions. Even if medical qigong as it's often practiced today is a modern development, this is perhaps not a bad thing. But I wonder- how much may have been lost?

Hi Ya Mu, Thanks for the get back. Would you say that the system you teach/other medical qigongs you've had experience with, have their source in the classics (The Yellow Emperor's Classic, The Classic of Difficulties, etc.) or have stemmed from older/alternative traditions? I ask as I'm curious to how seperate/compatable the medical qigong traditions are to the acupuncture/herbal traditions. a

HI! Thank you for sharing all this. Have you looked into a japanese tradition called 'Kototama'? It has similarities. The word 'kototama' roughly translates as 'word-spirit'. The tradition is based and builds upon the five mother sounds/syllables. I don't practice it or know enough about it to really tell you much, but the sounds are intoned in a similar way to how you describe. They also have a parallel with the five elements although the O (oh) relates to Water and the U (ooo) relates to Earth. Thanks again for sharing It's interesting that you mention the first passage of the Bible as being the most resonant. I suspect that many of the sacred texts and ways of using words place their greatest emphasis on the initial word or sentence...- perhaps creating a parallel situation of the first moment, the first sound to break the silence.. I was at a lecture on Vedic practices earlier this year and the teacher described a similar viewpoint, but in regards to the Vedas. The gist of his point was that in the first Veda, in the first chapter, the very first word was 'Agni'... Fire... Coincidentally the Kototama tradition has roots that stem back to the Vedas.. More pieces to a puzzle! a

Hehe. It is neat! Oschman is a doctor who wrote a book called 'energy medicine'. In it there is some research on human biomagnetic fields, comparing different parts of the body. If i remember correctly the human heart is the only organ/part of the body which extends infinitely... The word 'mindstream' and 'mind' suggest to many people something that goes on in the head. However in many eastern systems the base of awareness rests in the heart... In the filming of Suzuki isn't his joy infectious? This is a special joy, like a pure and calm delight in the freshness of being... blessed our we who can drink fresh water! From whence does it spring?

hahaa! What a clip! What a joy! ‎"the biomagnetic field of the heart extends indefinitely into space. While its strength diminishes with distance, there is no point at which we can say the field ends." j. oschman

Ah, I hear what your saying, but this is a bit of a sweeping statement no? Although if you really boil things down to it, not a great deal needs to be said in the first place (all you really need is a smile and a twinkle!) but I think it needs to be pointed out that the structure of our language has evolved in such a way that it inhibits real storytelling- no one has the time anymore! This makes it hard to make the space to allow real musicality in our speech and our stories, let alone the ones we can put down to paper (eg omg i hv no tm 4 ths) the beauty of poetry lies not just in the essence, but in the form, the rhythm and tone; it's a shame to skip over this... a

1. fourth uncle in the mountain by marjorie pivar 2. the power of limits by gyorgy doczi 3. the rainbow and the worm by mae-wan wo 4. mind over matter; higher martial arts by shi ming 5. seeking the spirit of the book of change by zhongxian wu 6. the toebone and the tooth by martin prechtel too many books, not enough time!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8575648331106173390# This is an admirable investigation into what went wrong. Also of interest- Howard Y. Lee. This qiqong master tought Carlos Casteneda qigong! Note the dedication in 'The Eagle's Gift' to HYL. a

This is a great insight! It confuses me too! So, 1. starting with bringing one's being into a state of UNITY, a barrier can then drop between self and the outside/the other. 2. if there is *at a higher level* a need to access information outside of one's smaller sphere, it can be viewed from this all-encompassing vantage point. Is this agreeable? (obviously transcending duality is the hurdle here!) When it comes down to it, I don't have any real reasons to develop remote viewing, apart from the playfulness in me that likes to explore the world and see new places! Also, I'm actually abit wary of this kind of practice, mainly because it seems potentially dangerous if you're really putting yourself out there without the proper kind of preparation/development. I see the practices of developing Internal Vision as perhaps more beneficial at the beginning. My quandary is this- It's possible for all of us to feel our mind *touch* different parts of our body, and with sustained intent bring qi to this part. I have been told that it is also possible to bring a type of visual dimension to this process. However, how does one make the jump between the borders of our own body and that of another? Does anything specific change or does it come about only through being able to manifest and wield greater intent? I'm asking this really in regards to medical diagnosis.. a

Thanks for the thoughts guys, much appreciated. The connection with lucid dreaming didn't occur to me, I guess this is what essentially is happening when we remote view, although in an in-between level of awareness. What makes me curious is the role the eyes play in both of these activities- lucid dreaming and remote viewing (and internal vision for that matter). Apart from the physical aspect of the eyes, and the physical things it can observe, there seems to be a heightened faculty of perception. This seems to be very much connected to LIGHT. I'm reminded of an old Daoist observation that the human body is YIN, apart from the eyes which are the sole YANG aspect of the physical body, pools of light. This ties into how internal vision can perceive the subtle light inside the body and inside the body of others, which is also very much connected to awareness. I'm rambling a little bit here, trying to grasp something that needs to be EXPERIENCED! I recently read about something called bio-photons, which is really stimulating a lot of these thoughts- it's quite incredible really- scientists have measured and tracked an extremely subtle form of light that appears in the body- this research for me is very exciting! and profound in its implications! check it out- http://www.international-light-association.eu/PDF/Biophotons.pdf

YES! And to repeat from a different angle- ask yourself this- What do I know for certain? What do I truthfully 100% KNOW? And after realising the truth of the matter, it is wise to act accordingly! a

they can turn your friends into enemies, they can turn enemies into friends they can bring nations together and cause them to war how important are words to you? how much value do we place in them? surely words are priceless! as our language grows how do we insure it keeps in good health? have we not inherited the language of our ancestors? and the shortcomings of the past? what eloquence we need to even speak about words the word is the body of the idea, and the idea is the soul of the word the world of ideas surpasses the world of words our understanding of thought requires a refinement of language if our speech is our breath and breath is life then to break our word is to damage life I shall endeavor to speak words that are both relatively and absolutely true the art of poetry is more important than the laws which govern us many set out on a journey that leads them further away from their goal words are half what is said and half what is heard fact and fiction are but two modes of storytelling the speech of metaphor is the only way we can hope to praise that which gives us our breath the movement of colour and sound is the vocabulary of nature being within nature every sound we hear or dream can be appreciated as music and so harmony is in our instincts beauty is our gift and love is our currency the success of words will bring our worlds into harmony and the failure we will not speak of silence these words are nourishing to some and deadly to others when that silence replaces the truth, the silence is a lie I will endeavor to speak truth