Everything

Hey, all! I am kinda new to Tao, or noob, whatever you might call it. I would like to ask something about the 48th verse, where I'm kinda stuck. Perhaps you guys can correct me on my learning of Tao. What I read (I don't know if this translation is correct or not): Learning consist of daily accumulating. The practice of the Tao consist of daily diminishing; decreasing and deacreasing, untill doing nothing. When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. True mastery can be gained by letting things go their own way. It cannot be gained by interfering. _______ So thats the 48th verse I read. What is meant by "True mastery" ? And how can fulfillment be reached by doing nothing? I thought being passive will do the opposite... I'm confused about this whole verse. Actually in all of my thinking about the Tao, because these teachings seems wise and paradoxical, but I cannot seem to relate it to anything else in the world. Feel free to comment on any of my words here. Thanks

Well, guess I should definitely try become aware of my inner landscape, that sounds like a good thing. I can see that translating itself into other areas of ones life in a positive way. I just didn't know what meditation really ment and how it translates onto mastery. Or how it affected individuals. Thanks. And thanks to everyone! Got so many posts here, I appreciate all perspectives and read them all ofcourse. Living beyond judgement, every person has good intentions. You guys are all great!

Awesome, that sounds pretty true for me aswell. Only thing is, I don't understand fully what you mean with letting go of the emotions. I've never thought of it that way. Can you give an example perhaps? Or more specific. Thanks, n peace&love to you aswell

I kinda live by the samurai code. Hold death in mind at all times, get over the fear of it, but respect death. Only once you've faced death as a hero can the boy in you die and the warrior arise. You know your boundaries as a warrior, thus are more effective in all combats in life. Not only that, you see this world from a mature perspective, where nothing is scarce, rather then agression, assertiveness is the answer. exaMPLE: The murderer of my master has spit on my face, and I seath my weapon, to walk away from killing him. Because in that moment I would have acted out of my anger, not out of something that is bigger then me and him. Also can one face his fears and do courage instead of whining or passiveness when it is needed most. But how does being dead help you achieve this kind of mastery while being alive? The concept of death is one that should be respected, not tried to replicate. Rather you should know that your fear of death is natural and a key element for your initiation into mandhood. Not only that, you should, in this time and age, know that death and life are opposites that depend on eachother, so they mean nothing to the Taoist, right?

Hey there, n thanks for your reply. I've also discussed this on my other topic about the spiritual value of the Tao. Yes, I know very well that I must find a place for Tao in my heart, but I know not how one goes about doing this... I cannot just put the Tao in my heart, first and foremost, if I don't know what the tao is. Secondly, I cannot do it if my heart is distracted, maybe overwhelmed even, by so much bad thoughts and negative feelings connected to these thoughts. I must surely practice to focus on the Tao trough on going meditation or present minded. But exactly how can one go about inspiring one self to carry the Tao in the heart? Even if one wants to carry words on his heart, its not always possible to do that. "The world is perfect" When I say that, I don't feel them in my heart. How can I place them on my heart? How did you? Do you remember how they got there? Overtime ofcourse. thanks for the video link btw, its awesome

Wait... I don't understand what meditation is. I don't even know how meditation would benefit me. Being present minded is not a problem for me, I'm good at that. Meditation is not a term I'm familiar with. I already knew that learning only is not the answer to succes. One must also experience. Together they form your intelect and you can be succesful. Ok, but this verse says to go meditate as a form of experience? Being present minded is often the way to have new experiences, play, go mine the intellect of others, etc. For some require more experience and others require more education. It is like a spectrum, no one is perfectly in the middle, in balance. How can meditation be part of that? It teaches you present mindednes. The play part of intellect is where Tao comes in, here in this verse. "By doing nothing, nothing is left undone." You're just going about, doing nothing, letting it all happen. Nothing is left undone, thus you can relax into the present moment and experience it fully to provide you with valuable lessons or new insights. Then, and only then does diminishing get you results and more things to accumulate. This is all very paradoxical, oddly explained in the tao. I don't see how this verse can be interpreted anyway else, but as a poem. It communicates clearly a state of play and experience, where nothing is left undone.

Yeah this is exactly what I thought of as I read this chapter. There comes a time when learning is over, and now you are the elder who stops taking, but gives. You are the man who returns from his journey and prepares others for theirs. When you share what you have gained it comes back to you in double. This has been going on for ages. The elders of the families do it all the time. Butt when you read from it in the Tao it has no contect to relate it with. Don't know the target audience, don't know the author, don't know the correct translation. This all seems so vague, and so many interpretations can be taken from the same teachings. It is more like art. Art of living or something.

Hmmm, I don't understand the mindset behind that. I do understand that nothing in this universe is what its named. We have words for communication ofcourse, thus the wise ancient teach without words. But here on forums, one must try and replicate these teachings trough words, ofcourse. I try to talk of spirituality and emotion because emotion cannot be communicated in words, it is nameless, it is not logical or intellectual. It simply is... Even tho this nameless thing we call emotion can be named and talked about, it is only experienced when no longer desired to experience, rather desireless one can experience it. I cannot be sure how the experience of Tao is for you, but you could try and communicate it like you just did, thats great. For it me it was basicly the same. I felt happy, and believed that everything was perfect. Someone else might say "everything is perfect" but not believe it. And someone else might believe it and try to convince others that everything is perfect, he will surely be thought of as a fool. Thus the wise "don't speak." Because believes, although emotion connected to an idea, cannot be communicated, only experienced, because of the emotional aspect to it. It is hard to hold on to a positive believe such as everything is perfect, when you are bombarded with all sorts of setbacks, such as murder, hunger, etc. Thus there are practices to focus on your Tao, even in the midst of chaos. Thus will surely mean you have love 100% of the time to give away, even in the midst of chaos. How does one go about practicing this tho? How did you come about feeling this way about the Tao? How did you come to the part where you finally experience the Tao durably without interuption?

Holy! Thats some strong words! You mean I should die while still alive? How's that possible.

You gave a whole new way of looking at it, great! I'm still confused about the diffrence between what you said about intention forming spirit and myself. Do you mean my physical form in the world of forms and boundaries is myself or shen and yi = my intention forming spirit? How does this spirit go about forming intentions? What is actually ment with this? The philosophy behind this souds very deep indeed. I'm afraid I don't uderstand it that well.

Fulfillment doesn't come after "wanting less." It is the other way around. "Wanting less" comes after fulfillment." Right? Don't forget how hard it is to reaching true fulfillment! Most people die in fear and regret, because most people simply have never reached durable fulfillment in life. Those who have, die in peace and without fear, thus the great ancient wise men say to them "Immortal." Not even death can touch him. His ways will seem mysterious, and all powerful. They also call him "dragon." Who know how dragons surmount wind and cloud into heaven? This is what is ment by dragon. Neither traps, arrows nor nets will catch a dragon. This will induce fear into the hearts of his enemies. How can you face an enemy that you cannot kill? "Even the gods are afraid of him who wants nothing for himself." As you put it. Hope this will explain things for you.

We are all everything? We are all the same? No word or name truely defines us, or anything. They are just tags for communication of human beings. This has arrised from our ability to try and predict the future, but the future can never truely be predicted. When it comes to such questions as "What am I?" Don't expect to find your self in a dictionary. I can take it one step further and say that everything and nothing is the same. There is only infinity. Your non-being is where your wisdom comes from, and the place in you where everything is one is where love comes from. What I am expecting is that you are having issues with your identity, which raises the question of "what am I?" Perhaps other people have raised this question FOR you, by questioning your identity. Such as "You never know what you want." "You don't accept no for an answer." "Decide already!" These are indications that our individuality, our place in this universe, is being questioned by our self... Because we ARE everything. Stay in grace for these questions and confront them fully. Explore your boundaries fully, just like in several myths. You must be the hero and fight the dragon and die... Your warrior will not arise when your hero has not faced death. Not knowing your limitation, you can never truely be a warrior. These limitations will set boundaries around yourself that seperate the you from others. You can decline and accept declines, you can fight and recover from hurt or loss quickly. You will stay durable, and you can lend your durability to others. Thank you for reading.

Hi, all. Perhaps not everyone here is so advanced on the philosophy of Tao Te Ching. There is one important thing I did not read about in Tao Te Ching by Dr. Wayne Dyer (Change your thoughts, change your life: Living the wisdom of the Tao). And this is a topic for men, because the equation of women differs from men according to Mind OS by Dr. Paul Dobransky. For men it is "mission in life + skill in attracting women = masculinity". This is quantum psychology or something. I'm not here to discuss that. In Tao Te Ching I did find clues to transform your desires for women into inspiration. This could lead to a better skill at attracting women. And I read a line that said something like "By not displying what is desirable, you cause the hearts of men to remain undisturbed." And my self living among many muslims, I think this points out why alot of muslim men prefer women would wear those headscarfs. Ofcourse this isn't the place to talk about muslim philosophy, but I was curious wether or not Tao has got the same idea I just gave about the feminity or another desire. I never thought that "not displaying" it would bring peace. But I have found many elders who prefer that their desires be not displayed. I can't find alot of mature men or elders to mentor me about how to deal with women in a mature way. I can find alot of men who can teach me the skill of attraction. Thats why I made this topic to ask how Taoist look at this, to gain a new perspective. If this topic offends females or males here in anyway, please know that I am just referring to survival and replication value. The 2 purposes of our live according to biology/evolution is survival and replication. Erik von Markovik said you can see survival and replication as two ends of a spectrum. One should find balance between the 2. This is also similar to the philosophy Bruce Lee talks about in his many interviews. Martial Arts = survival value Venusian Arts = replication value. So... How would Lao Tsu deal with women?

"Taoism is ultimately doing what is natural." If you tell that to the avarage naive nice guy who is insecure, he will isolate him self into his comfort zone for ever. Can you explain it with more detail? And yeah, you talk about how to attract women. Truth is, the field is a very harsh environment, childish, very competetive. This is not something I see a Taoist do easily. Still it is a very important aspect in life in the eyes of many man. They want a fullfilled live in the end. One can actually grow high character and have a purpose in life, but they probably might lack inspiration from women, or lack the ability to attract them and thus not feel fullfilled. They want the ability to attract women, this will increase their masculinity to complete the equation. Even if that means going out there and putting value on status, overvalue possessions. They will create friends to increase status. All about status. This goes against the philosophy of Tao. Thats why I wonder if Taoist actually isolate themselves from women alltogether, or do they have a way of attracting women that goes against biology/evolution perhaps? Or is there some hidden paradox here that not giving value to status you will receive status or something? I am seeking for a deeper meaning of the Tao inside the world of PickUpArtists as you guys call them. In the end, the way people practice the venusian arts will change. When you grow you will learn new things from the same lessons, over and over again. This is about maturity. And it is a rule to have relationships with those who have the same maturity level as you. Otherwise it will get boring or you'll become the father/mother fogigure in the relationship.

Lol that looks like something you would watch after smoking weed. Weird video. What is the Tao anyway?

Thanks, that was the perspective I was looking for.

A document with spaces (fields) in which to write or select, for a series of documents with similar contents 7? A class or grouping of students in a school 7?

Uhm, not to poison your wonderful hot conversation about sex here... But I was not even talking about sex. On toppic. A mans ability to attract women in a way. This doesn't mean they have to sleep with eachother. I never went to seduction fase, I didn't even got to comfort fase yet! I am talking about a man's ABILITY to attract women. His skill. Doesn't that require "Character" to succeed? Infact, when I practiced my skill on attracting women, my whole life changed. What a women can see about you in one second is so deep. There is no way but to grow character to be succesful here. About venusian arts being delusional compared to Martial Arts. Well then, let me tell you: Fighting is bad, m'kay? Why do people practice it over and over again? So that they don't need want to fight anymore. After years of practice in Venusian Arts, the artist, just like the martial artist, does not want to sleep with every girl he sees. Unlike you guys out there, lying to your self you don't desire women... If you had superpowers right now, you would kick ass everywhere without even being responsible, because you never mastered the martial arts. Same with venusian. The world best pick up artist, the guy who invented the venusian arts, did start out playing seduction as if it was a game. He then later learned that gaining the skill of attracting any women he wanted was alot harder then he thought and required more discipline. Starting with seduction, he was the creep. Starting with comfort he was the friend. Starting with attraction and skipping comfort to seduction he was the "player." Starting with attraction, then comfort, then seduction, he got it right. Mystery created "MysteryMethod" To teach other men to live the life of a rockstar. Eventually, he mastered the venusian arts and sticked with one girlfriend. When you take it all appart and look at attraction only, there are so many skills that look into this part. Stage skill, mystery skill. And let me tell you, lao tsu was a very mysterious guy. This doesn't mean that he went out and had sex with alot of women... Same with Martial Arts. Do you think the Art of War is about making war? No! It can be used for personal life as well. It can be used in relation ships. It can be used for financial growth. How ever you want to use it, it can be used. Main thing is, it can be used to increase you SURVIVAL VALUE. Venusian arts... same thing. It can be used to increase you REPLICATION VALUE. Not just for sex. I never mentioned sex... Now give me your perspective again, without thinking that I am out here for infinite sex by using the power of the Tao. lol

Hey, thanks for your reply. I was fascinated by it. Always found that Tao philosophy goes deep and inspires. When you talk about the timings of the universe I find that very dificult to understand. I do not know how Tao relates to timings of the universe or in what way. Neither can I find the link between timings of the universe and replication. I do know that Venusian Artists give great importance to their timing, which comes from all their practice. Can you explain it a bit more perhaps? I have indeed read about a study that showed why so many grew up without knowing who their real father was. Investigating sexual activities or desires of women towards males during month's. Checking up on timing, they found that during ovulation females felt more sexually attracted towards men. This is why so many men think females cheat on "provider" guys to sleep with "bad" boys. But how does this timing of the female help you with your own replication value, or skill of attracting women?

Hi, I'm new to Tao, and like to learn more about it. I like physics and philosophy. looking forward to chatting with you guys. best regards

Short Version If Destructive and Constructive behaviour are both perfect, which one should be choose? Both at the same time? Long Version Hi, I'm new to Tao and like to know more about it. Lao Tzu wrote Tao Te Ching right? I read the 81 verses from Wayne W. Dyer. I am always sceptical of everything untill I test it in my own life and it has to work. So far Tao Te Ching brought me some peaceful feelings. But I never blindly believe anything and challenging my own believes is a daily hobby lol. Its just fun and allows me to grow higher character not being limited by negative believes. So my question for you guys, if Tao considers bad same as good, and all is perfect, then why is destruction not perfect too? Ofcourse it is, we consider "bad" people as our student and "good" as our teachers. Eventually the only person you can control is your own body. You navigate trough the universes making either destructive or constructive decisions every single moment of your life. And when you die, you are completely one with the universe... Where do you want to die? One where you made more constructive decisions or destructive? So rather go to hell or heaven? Well, frankly for a Tao centered person, it doesn't matter right? Because Tao trusts good is the very nature of your being? I don't get this... Destructive can be the nature of things too. There are forests that are fire centered and depend on fire to create life. If I was a universe, I'd look with an open jaw and see beauty in a world where people nuke themselves to death, because there is a nature behind it all. Destruction is creation. The thing is that people have a believe that says that only should I do constructive behaviour. And always be good. But this is ofcourse insignificant for Tao Te Ching right? Because if you're Tao centered, heaven or hell are the same. Is this a good or bad thing? Don't know what to think of it. I think the diffrents is that in physics nothing can be possibly created, only recycled. And in Tao there is only creation. Infinite creation only. That is the nature of Tao? When I die, I believe my body is being abosrbed by the universe yes I become one with for the eternity that it lasts, but I'm also recycled as many things. How does this differ to Tao believe?